Rebranding America

[Mango]

If Bono did not want to be criticized, he should post what his and U2's personal donations have been. Also, he solicits the international community and Countires leaders to donate government funds, however, he moves his business out of Ireland-- his birth country-- to the Netherlands, so that he doesn't have to pay royalties after Ireland changed the tax rules.

When your belief is that government donations (even though no one has any control over how that money is spent due to corruption and politics and how much actually reaches the impoverished) are part of the cure for poverty, especially Africa, then fiscally decide that your above taxation to help your country reach it's goals, don't be surprised when people call you a hypocrite.

 

[scooterbug44]

So Bono is a hypocrite because he is smart about money?

I don't pay any more taxes than I absolutely need to and I believe we should all volunteer and donate to charity - does that mean I am a hypocrite too?

It's a simple fact of business that corporations will base themselves wherever the tax rate is most advantageous - hence the number of bank accounts in the Caymans, Switzerland etc.

 

[Geo]

I would be way more impressed with Bono if he requested Americans stop buying his music, t-shirts, posters, keychains, boobleheads, etc and instead send that money to whatever group is overseeing the halving of global poverty. Don't hold your breath...:roll:

Skunky, it is known that you are a physician. And we presume that a big part of why you chose this profession is that you are actually interested in practicing medicine and making people well.

So do you believe it would be fair/reasonable for someone to say that they are hardly impressed with all the good you do in your chosen profession because you charge for your services?

 

[Geo]

If Bono did not want to be criticized, he should post what his and U2's personal donations have been. Also, he solicits the international community and Countires leaders to donate government funds, however, he moves his business out of Ireland-- his birth country-- to the Netherlands, so that he doesn't have to pay royalties after Ireland changed the tax rules.

When your belief is that government donations (even though no one has any control over how that money is spent due to corruption and politics and how much actually reaches the impoverished) are part of the cure for poverty, especially Africa, then fiscally decide that your above taxation to help your country reach it's goals, don't be surprised when people call you a hypocrite.

Apples and Oranges.

If Bono advocated for bands/musicians to donate their proceeds from tee-shirt sales, album sales or a percentage of concert ticket sales and then U2 didn't do this- well that would certainly make him a hypcocrite.

But the fact that U2 are still in business to turn a profit while entertaining fans worldwide does not make them hypocrites because their singer is an activist on the side who lobbies governments to forgive debt, provide meds to the sick and feed the hungry.

So let's say that U2's head accountant approached them and said-
"Guys, you are getting crushed with taxes by remaining an Irish based enterprise. You should really consider forming an LLC in Delaware because this will save you a gazillion dollars each year".

Should Bono and the boys have responded with-
"That just makes no sense and is extremely hypocritical because we want to rid the world of poverty. Let's pay as much taxes as we can to feed the hungry. In fact, is there anywhere else that has a higher tax burden than Ireland because that's where we should be based".

(apologies for the sarcasm)

 

[Mango]

So Bono is a hypocrite because he is smart about money?

I don't pay any more taxes than I absolutely need to and I believe we should all volunteer and donate to charity - does that mean I am a hypocrite too?

It's a simple fact of business that corporations will base themselves wherever the tax rate is most advantageous - hence the number of bank accounts in the Caymans, Switzerland etc.

There's nothing wrong with taking advantage of lawful tax breaks within your Country, but you are not asking your government, as a representative of a Cause, to contribute to your pet cause with other people's tax dollars who may not have the benefit of moving their money out. Assuming he donates his savings in tax revenues from royalties (which I think was about 142K euros), he is sending a message that he knows better what to do with his donation than a Country dictating how to spend his money. Not necessarily the message he is promoting. Do you not see the irony in that?

I am not criticizing Bono's work, but I can understand why others would cast criticism when tours that make hundreds of millions of dollars for U2 are also promoting his Cause at the same time and asking for money; or when he criticizes Countries like Australia (and us for that matter) for not donating enough to Africa, but then moves his money out of his own Country. Let's just say that I would be much more impressed with what he has to say if he went on one tour and donated all the money to his Cause. No one says he has to live like Mother Teresa, but I do not like to see someone use celebrity to earn a living whilst promoting a cause. Do it on your own time all the time. Keep them separate.

 

[Geo]

There's nothing wrong with taking advantage of lawful tax breaks within your Country, but you are not asking your government, as a representative of a Cause, to contribute to your pet cause with other people's tax dollars who may not have the benefit of moving their money out. Assuming he donates his savings in tax revenues from royalties (which I think was about 142K euros), he is sending a message that he knows better what to do with his donation than a Country dictating how to spend his money. Not necessarily the message he is promoting. Do you not see the irony in that?

I see no irony at all. I would see *some* if Ireland was the only country he was asking to increase their aid. But he is asking all countries. Minimizing his personal tax burden and using celebrity to make the world a better place don't clash, IMHO...

I am not criticizing Bono's work, but I can understand why others would cast criticism when tours that make hundreds of millions of dollars for U2 are also promoting his Cause at the same time and asking for money; or when he criticizes Countries like Australia (and us for that matter) for not donating enough to Africa, but then moves his money out of his own Country. Let's just say that I would be much more impressed with what he has to say if he went on one tour and donated all the money to his Cause. No one says he has to live like Mother Teresa, but I do not like to see someone use celebrity to earn a living whilst promoting a cause. Do it on your own time all the time. Keep them separate.

Totally disagree. He would be a fool to not use U2's popularity to help his worthy causes. Passionate politics and causes have been a cornerstone of U2's music and shows dating back over 30 years. There is another thread right now in which a poster commented that U2 should leave the politics out of their concerts and that she saw people leave in disgust. I responded that leaving a U2 show because you are hacked off at the political undertones (or overtones) is like leaving a hockey game because a fight broke out...

 

[scooterbug44]

They make 90% of their money outside of Ireland, all still pay Irish income tax, and just made this move to avoid also paying a 42% tax on royalties, so I really don't have a problem with it....................especially since for decades Ireland has been doing what the Netherlands is now doing. They drew businesses and artists from other countries with a lower tax rate and just got beaten at their own game after a 40 year run.

Now if U2 stopped paying all taxes and didn't donate any money to charity, I would find that to be hypocritical.................but by taking advantage of a better tax rate they aren't doing anything every major corporation doesn't do daily.

 

[Mango]

I see no irony at all. I would see *some* if Ireland was the only country he was asking to increase their aid. But he is asking all countries. Minimizing his personal tax burden and using celebrity to make the world a better place don't clash, IMHO...



Totally disagree. He would be a fool to not use U2's popularity to help his worthy causes. Passionate politics and causes have been a cornerstone of U2's music and shows dating back over 30 years. There is another thread right now in which a poster commented that U2 should leave the politics out of their concerts and that she saw people leave in disgust. I responded that leaving a U2 show because you are hacked off at the political undertones (or overtones) is like leaving a hockey game because a fight broke out...

Maybe I am not being clear in what I am trying to point out. There are many that believe that giving money to impoverished Countries is tantamount to welfare and those Countries will never lift themselves out and take care of their people if they are consistently being uplifted by the majority. So, that is where the irony comes in when one is asking for foreign aide, but doesn't want to pay the piper on their earnings within their Country. Granted it is small amount, and Bono does promote fair trade.

As far as celebrity being used to promote Causes, I am all for it. Melissa Etheridge wrote a song I Run for Life and all royalties go to breast cancer charities. Angelina Jolie also arranged a deal with People Magazine allowing them to print the first picture showing her visibly pregnant in exchange for a $500,000 donation to the charity Clean Streets. She pays all her expenses when she travels around the world. She lives in the same quarters as relief workers. I do not see her acting or producing movies that promote her causes that she financially benefits from.

 

[AlphaCrab]

Off Topic, Slightly: Now this is a really great thread--full of good ideas, great back and forth participation, and almost no one gets hurt--I have enjoyed reading this entire thread like a book!

....and I learned a few things!

 

[Mango]

Off Topic, Slightly: Now this is a really great thread--full of good ideas, great back and forth participation, and almost no one gets hurt--I have enjoyed reading this entire thread like a book!

....and I learned a few things!

and to think, I've never hung out with Scootybug and I do not know that guy Geo and any of his friends. Don't even think that's his real name. :lie:
(We can disagree, raise salient points, and still respect each other's probably because we are not hiding behind a screen name. ;-))