Don't ask, Don't tell

[Matt J]

You apparently have never been to a bar in San Francisco. Gay men hit on anything that moves, just like their straight counterparts.

Would you feel comfortable taking a shower in front of some of those men?

Your bigotry runs deep. There is a vast difference between a military shower stall and a gay bar. As a straight man if you're walking into a gay bar you are putting yourself in a situation where a gay man might hit on you. That expectation isn't even close to reality in a military shower stall.

I'm thinking you are just concerned that someone might see your "short comings" and tell the rest of the platoon. That's not an exclusively gay thing, it's more of a male thing in general.

 

[scooterbug44]

In my experience, modesty becomes a minor consideration once your options (or the facilities) become limited.

Am I the only person who has spent a lot of time bathing or in various states of undress with people I am not sexually involved with/interested in?

You just get over it because there are more important factors.

 

[Gidget]

Would you feel comfortable taking a shower in front of some of those men?

With my body - you bet!

 

[scooterbug44]

Would you feel comfortable taking a shower in front of some of those men?

As Papa Scooterbug says "give 'em a thrill" .

They'd be less interested/critical than most women.

 

[Gidget]

BTW - my post was a JOKE. But a woman and a man showering together is different - different parts, and women because of their cycles, etc... need more privacy IMO. But if it boiled down to it I wouldn't have an issue.

I will add - why is the fact that someone is gay mean that they always have sex on the brain?? I think many gay men and women would be thinking about a lot of other things in the shower other than checking out potential partners.

 

[scooterbug44]

Frankly, a lot of straight (and homophobic) guys think they are a lot more attractive to gay men then they actually are - and so think they are in "danger" of unwanted attentions. The reality is that they are Roseanne Barr, not Heidi Klum. :rofl:

 

[30ashopper]

So the consensus here seems to be that opposite sexes are entitled to privacy from the other sex, but sexual attraction should not play a role. In essence what you're saying is sexual attraction is not a defining characteristic. Personally I disagree with that. Not recognizing sexual preference undermines relevant rights issues. If we want sexual preference to be recognized as a defining characteristic of an individual, then we must treat it as such.

 

[Mango]

Frankly, a lot of straight (and homophobic) guys think they are a lot more attractive to gay men then they actually are - and so think they are in "danger" of unwanted attentions. The reality is that they are Roseanne Barr, not Heidi Klum. :rofl:

Not in the military. I think most men in uniform are pretty hot and usually are well toned.

In the military, short of worried about getting yourself killed in combat or/and protecting protecting your country, I think what probably bothers some people is the fact, married or not, we are all human. I'm sorry, but if Daniel Craig was showering next to me, there's now doubt, and I am happily married, that I would be making an effort to look at his package. (That's if I wasn't exhausted from boot camp or being in combat) Hail, I might even be tempted to look at Portia DeRossi, Ellen's partner.

But, from what I have seen as far as polls taken by service people, is the majority do not care about serving with a gay person. It seems the people who have the most issue with it are people not serving.

I have a question, though. Outside of the showering issue, I imagine the biggest problem the military will have overturning Don't ask, don't tell is benefits. Since gay marriages laws vary from State to State, if the military, being a Federal entity rules that partners are entitled to benefits, will they have to be married? and if not, what would constitute a partnership? sharing of a home? rental lease? and for how long? Wouldn't the government be setting a precedent by allowing benefits which could affect State's laws?

 

[Lynnie]

I am sometimes uncomfortable with the way Cowboy looks at me when I am in the shower.

If a female looks at me with desires in the spa dressing area, well.....that's her issue, not mine. And, if it has happened, I was oblivious.....does that mean I am comfortable with my heterosexuality enough to not be concerned?

Some people believe sexuality is entirely soul and energy, not necessarily a male or female thing. (They might be kinda' strange....just kidding.) But, this probably lends some explanation to attraction of the same gender......if and when it occurs.

 

[Teresa]

Not in the military. I think most men in uniform are pretty hot and usually are well toned.

In the military, short of worried about getting yourself killed in combat or/and protecting protecting your country, I think what probably bothers some people is the fact, married or not, we are all human. I'm sorry, but if Daniel Craig was showering next to me, there's now doubt, and I am happily married, that I would be making an effort to look at his package. (That's if I wasn't exhausted from boot camp or being in combat) Hail, I might even be tempted to look at Portia DeRossi, Ellen's partner.

But, from what I have seen as far as polls taken by service people, is the majority do not care about serving with a gay person. It seems the people who have the most issue with it are people not serving.

I have a question, though. Outside of the showering issue, I imagine the biggest problem the military will have overturning Don't ask, don't tell is benefits. Since gay marriages laws vary from State to State, if the military, being a Federal entity rules that partners are entitled to benefits, will they have to be married? and if not, what would constitute a partnership? sharing of a home? rental lease? and for how long? Wouldn't the government be setting a precedent by allowing benefits which could affect State's laws?

yep, reminds me of that thread long ago about listing the top 3 or top 5 or top howevermany - on your to do list.

anyhoo - was listening to NPR today on the issue and several military folks called in to say that the people serving could care less. that when it comes down to it, they are all in it together and they work together and no one even thinks about it. They did go through changes in their "thinking" when women started serving in combat - that took some adjustment. but as far as serving with same sex gay people - its nothing new.

these folks were speaking from their perspectives so I am not saying it pertains to all military - I am sure there are those who are not for gays serving openly in the military and never will be.

one day we'll have so many stories to tell our grandchildren about gay men and women - all the things society kept them from participating in - and that they we weren't allowed to ask, and they weren't allowed to tell, and that Aunt Jimmy was discharged from the Marines in the year 2006, etc. and they won't be able to fathom it.