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"The effort to raise the level of sociopolitical discourse has failed miserably"

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Obviously there has always been nastiness, propaganda, and use of the media to control the masses - but the dumbing down wasn't the norm to the extent that I think it is today.

Our forefathers could still intelligently discuss the actual issues and concepts. Far too often I find that people today are outraged, yet don't have a freaking clue about what they are discussing - and refuse to believe anything else or hear any opposing argument.

I feel that the media and politicians are dragging the entire country into a partisan tar pit of idiocy and misinformation to serve their short term self interests and it is destroying our country.

Birdfeathers! The politicos have always appealed to the lowest common denomination and fears. They have also, from the earliest days behaved like schoolchildren. I do think a huge difference between antiquity and now is the rise of the new or instant media, where libel and half truths can be sent around the country with the touch of a button.

From its earliest days, the Senate has consistently stressed the importance of decorum in its proceedings. Of the Senate's first 20 rules, 10 dealt with proper behavior. Vice President Thomas Jefferson included in his now-classic Manual of Parliamentary Practice a telling passage that reads as if it had been taken from a schoolroom wall. "No one is to disturb another in his speech by hissing, coughing, spitting, speaking or whispering to another; nor to stand up or interrupt him; nor to pass between the Speaker and the speaking member; nor to go across the [Senate chamber], or to walk up and down it, or to take books or papers from the [clerk's] table, or write there."

On February 22, 1902, John McLaurin, South Carolina's junior senator, raced into the Senate Chamber and pronounced that state's senior senator, Ben Tillman, guilty of "a willful, malicious, and deliberate lie." Standing nearby, Tillman spun around and punched McLaurin squarely in the jaw. The chamber exploded in pandemonium as members struggled to separate both members of the South Carolina delegation. In a long moment, it was over, but not without stinging bruises both to bystanders and to the Senate's sense of decorum.

Although Tillman and McLaurin had once been political allies, the relationship had recently cooled. Both were Democrats, but McLaurin had moved closer to the Republicans, who then controlled Congress, the White House, and a lot of South Carolina patronage. When McLaurin changed his position to support Republicans on a controversial treaty, Tillman's rage erupted. With McLaurin away from the chamber, he had charged that his colleague had succumbed to "improper influences."

On February 28, 1902, the Senate censured both men and added to its rules the provision that survives today as part of Rule XIX: "No senator in debate shall, directly or indirectly, by any form of words impute to another Senator or to other Senators any conduct or motive unworthy or unbecoming a Senator."


Reference Items:


Simkins, Francis Butler. Pitchfork Ben Tillman: South Carolinian. Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press, 1944.
 
What part of my post makes you think I am disagreeing with you guys about how nasty politics has historically been?

All I am saying is that I think the basic knowledge of what is being discussed/debated is at a much lower level these days.
 
What part of my post makes you think I am disagreeing with you guys about how nasty politics has historically been?

All I am saying is that I think the basic knowledge of what is being discussed/debated is at a much lower level these days.

I'd like to think thanks to all the new information sources and general education level of the country our discourse is far more educated than at any time in the country's history. Not sure if that's the case though.
 
I think there is definitely more information out there, but not necessarily correct information or people who know how to critically analyze it.

And I am starting to think we are trending downward on the education front.
 
I'd like to see something like Google Views where instead of looking up facts, you can do a search on the correct opinion on various issues. It would be the correct opinion based on your personality type, age, demographic, what music you like, favorite movies, etc.. It would make it a lot easier to have a consistent world view instead of having to analyze and research each and every topic. Google Views would also have the option of generating an alarmist propoganda email messages and send them out to everybody in your address book who's Google Views Profile has opposing viewpoints.
 
I'd like to think thanks to all the new information sources and general education level of the country our discourse is far more educated than at any time in the country's history. Not sure if that's the case though.

I was going to say something similar - because when you stop to consider all the information we have available to us today, compared to even just 10 years ago, its just amazing. but perhaps the quality of information we look at, choose to zero in on, select, has gone way down due to very short attention spans (due to our heavy duty TV watching starting in the 70s... due to...).. aw hell, who knows?

we should be better educated and more globally aware. but as a nation, I have to say we are headed in the other direction. and I believe that was the author's whole point.
 
I was going to say something similar - because when you stop to consider all the information we have available to us today, compared to even just 10 years ago, its just amazing. but perhaps the quality of information we look at, choose to zero in on, select, has gone way down due to very short attention spans (due to our heavy duty TV watching starting in the 70s... due to...).. aw hell, who knows?

we should be better educated and more globally aware. but as a nation, I have to say we are headed in the other direction. and I believe that was the author's whole point.

I agree with you completely. Too much info and too much "analysis" of this info. With the advent of CNN (twenty years ago?) we now see the same one line news story all day long with so many stupid talking heads adding more and more of the same @#$%. I yearn for a "just the news" network. Hell, I yearn for the Cronkite era...
 
I agree with you completely. Too much info and too much "analysis" of this info. With the advent of CNN (twenty years ago?) we now see the same one line news story all day long with so many stupid talking heads adding more and more of the same @#$%. I yearn for a "just the news" network. Hell, I yearn for the Cronkite era...

I could do without cable news except during elections. But I certainly would not want to do away with the internet and bloggers. Their depth and analysis is incredibly valuable. I'd hate to go back to a time where everything going on the world had to be crammed into three, one hour nightly news casts.
 
I think this has possibly always happend as Skunky noted, we simply were not as aware of it.

It was not shoved in our face 24/7 by media on TV, Internet, our phones, etc.

Civility in discussion of opposing views is something very rare these days. So many people can't seem to state their opinion without insulting everyone that disagrees with them.
 
I think this has possibly always happend as Skunky noted, we simply were not as aware of it.

It was not shoved in our face 24/7 by media on TV, Internet, our phones, etc.

Civility in discussion of opposing views is something very rare these days. So many people can't seem to state their opinion without insulting everyone that disagrees with them.

Instant 'news', sound bites and the internet's enablement of anyone to be 'the media'.

I think these are major changes in politics since my youth.

Couple these with much lower standards of civil behavior and discourse in general and you end up with the messiness we have now.
 
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