How Today's Conservatism Lost Touch with Reality

[LuciferSam]

Nice try. IMO you are trying to compare apples and oranges. Stimulus created by WWII is a far cry and entirely different from the stimulus Obama created.

I'm not comparing anything. Look through my post, you don't see the word Obama anywhere. It seemed clear to me and I'm sure others that the question was hypothetical. Not once did I imply that the President had implemented any of those ideas. I wish he would. I'm just trying to shatter the myth that a good old fashioned war is the only thing that can bail us out of a depression as many seem to imply. It wasn't the war, it was the jobs created by it. I suppose perhaps that defense spending was one form of government spending that was justifiable in the eyes of FDR's critics. So you tell me, is there any sort of fiscal stimulus other than war might be effective and justifiable and that you would approve of? Are you going to continue to dance around the issue?

 

[Andy A]

I'll just dance around the issue, thank you, since I don't consider solutions such as GM electric cars a viable solution at this point in time.

 

[idlewind]

I'm not comparing anything. Look through my post, you don't see the word Obama anywhere. It seemed clear to me and I'm sure others that the question was hypothetical. Not once did I imply that the President had implemented any of those ideas. I wish he would. I'm just trying to shatter the myth that a good old fashioned war is the only thing that can bail us out of a depression as many seem to imply. It wasn't the war, it was the jobs created by it. I suppose perhaps that defense spending was one form of government spending that was justifiable in the eyes of FDR's critics. So you tell me, is there any sort of fiscal stimulus other than war might be effective and justifiable and that you would approve of? Are you going to continue to dance around the issue?

I will be glad to answer. No fiscal stimulus is effective in creating wealth and growth and no such program is ever justified. The economy improved in WWII because the war forced full employment combined with large levels of personal savings.
The way to improve our economy is to cut spending below the national income, begin to pay off the debt and implement a sane, simple tax system. Then cut regulation to improve the business climate and begin the process of reforming the monetary system. That would be a great start but the process will be long and hard. We did not get in this fix overnight and we will not get out of it overnight either.

 

[idlewind]

Well, your answer is better than Andy's electric pole dance. I think you're saying that in general people need to have the crap scared out of them in order to take a disciplined approach to living. To me that says in general people are really stupid.

People just don't pay attention until something frastic happens. Most people are too busy making a living and living their lives.

 

[LuciferSam]

People just don't pay attention until something frastic happens. Most people are too busy making a living and living their lives.

So I guess that right now , nothing drastic is happening. I agree.

 

[futurebeachbum]

To me that says in general people are really stupid.

10 years of running a vacation rentals business has definitely confirmed that for me.

 

[30ashopper]

Well, your answer is better than Andy's electric pole dance. I think you're saying that in general people need to have the crap scared out of them in order to take a disciplined approach to living. To me that says in general people are really stupid.

I think it has more to do with complacency brought on by government insuring people that everything will be fine, nothing will go wrong. This is the negative side effect of big government, regulation, and our entitlement system. People begin to accept the idea that they can live their lives however they chose. So long as the government doesn't step in a say, "no, you can't do that", they think they’ll be ok. Under this type of system, if the floor falls out people find themselves blaming government and business instead of themselves. The response we see from government then is to grow the size and reach of government even farther. The problem is that as the size of government grows, more risks are exposed and handed over to government for management. Over time government is forced to remove all risk. The result of this is a long, slow, economic decline of the society since risk and growth are tied together. Look at the more extreme reactions people are having in Europe to the same crisis we are experience for examples of what happens as government grows and the expectations of the safety net expand.

 

[idlewind]

So I guess that right now , nothing drastic is happening. I agree.

Unfortunately the iceberg of debt is straight ahead and people are not paying attention. When the inevitable crisis comes they will panic like the current situation in Greece. What would be much better for everyone would be to fix the situation before something drastic happens.

 

[scooterbug44]

I'll just dance around the issue, thank you, since I don't consider solutions such as GM electric cars a viable solution at this point in time.

How about American companies manufacturing batteries for electric cars?

When Obama took office the US made 2% of the world's batteries for hybrid/electric cars, that is now over 20% and 30 new factories are being/have been built. If the Republican's don't screw with the incentive program that made that possible, by 2015 we can be making 40% of them.

30 new American factories (16 in Michigan) is nothing to scoff at.

Green technology is one of the best ways to create American manufacturing jobs. Green/Energy is one of the best ways to create jobs and cut overhead costs.

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/06/19/it-s-still-the-economy-stupid.html

 

[30ashopper]

How about American companies manufacturing batteries for electric cars?

When Obama took office the US made 2% of the world's batteries for hybrid/electric cars, that is now over 20% and 30 new factories are being/have been built. If the Republican's don't screw with the incentive program that made that possible, by 2015 we can be making 40% of them.

30 new American factories (16 in Michigan) is nothing to scoff at.

Green technology is one of the best ways to create American manufacturing jobs. Green/Energy is one of the best ways to create jobs and cut overhead costs.

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/06/19/it-s-still-the-economy-stupid.html

If the batteries are so popular, why do manufacturers need incentives to build them? What this basically says is that without government subsidies the production of batteries wouldn't be economical and nobody would do it. The subsidies also distort the market hindering innovation in the field that might, hopfully, over time make the battery factories worth building. Basically, it's a short term fix with long term negative implications.