Surge is a Success!!

[Uncle Timmy]

Your message is consistent. It involves micro-managing the world for your own benefit. Create a rational pretext for intervention and use the military to occupy sovereign states. War eliminates the need for diplomacy. Appeasement becomes a dirty word. The call for patriotism and support of one's own military might squelches debate. This thinking of "us against them" has an unlimited list of enemies and unforgiveable transgressions that promotes fear instead of free thinking courage in the face of adversity. The war state promotes the military industrial complex and minimizes personal liberty and self expression in the quest for victory over the "evil" enemy. War enriches the few at the expense of entire populations. It is utter madness to use unilateral war to change regimes in the absence of a credible threat or attack, and the argument you have taken 6thGen, is homegrown, apple pie, in-your-face radicalism.. It's why I think you need to pick up an m-16 and take a stroll in Fallujah for a few months, and see what it's like to screw around with people who had nothing to do with 9/11 and only want you to get the hell out of their neighborhood. Were you in their shoes, you'd be lining up a G.I. in your crosshairs. You would be entirely justified to defend your own turf. Right? Now go find some more corporate rationalizations for our never ending struggle against Islamo-fascism. You know where they are, between the BP and Lockheed-Martin display ads.

Extremely well put, Bob.

Micro-managing the issues is spot on. Facts do not exist in a vacuum- they must be looked at within their context.

 

[6thGen]

Bob,
Can you point to where I've brought up patriotism or said that there is no need for diplomacy? The military-industrial complex you keep bringing up is nothing short of conspiracy theory, so I'm not even getting into that. We've debated the justification for war, so I'm not rehashing that. The fact that you believe that anyone who doesn't support your worldview is bought and paid for is not only silly, ignorant and arrogant, it makes debating you fruitless.

Timmy,
You show disdain for sound bites, but you throw this in without qualification. "While American and Israeli strategic interests do not always align, in this case I believe it is in both country?s interest to stabilize the current situation. The surge will not do that."

And you continue to ignore my points about your nonsense plan.

 

[Uncle Timmy]

You've yet to address how we get from where we are now to where you want us to be.

First step, get rid of the idiots in Washington who think exactly as you do.

You know, the ones who got us into this mess in the first place and, like you, show no apparent ability to learn from their mistakes.

 

[Uncle Timmy]

Your argument completely dismisses the Shiite reality, and you somehow call the contrary illogical. I never said the surge was an end itself, which you characterize it as. It is a means to an end. We stabilize Iraq, we have a little more bargaining power. We negotiate a compromise from a position of strength. I, unlike you, know that I cannot craft said compromise seeing that I don't do that for a living. What I've offered is one that we are actually working on. It has holes in it, yes, but it's a hell of a lot better than putting a butcher in charge, really, really pissing off the moderate Arab governments,

So glad that you are now lecturing me, someone who spent 8 years in the middle east, about the complexities of intra-religious and ethnic issues to be dealt with there. Glad you are finally on board with the whole concept of 'understanding' the culture you are dealing with. Ironic that you have all but mocked the idea in an earlier post.

However, being an newcommer to the idea of an in-depth analysis it is apparent that you need to spend a bit more time looking at these extremely complex issues.

For example, your vague reference to 'moderate Arab governments', would these by any chance be Sunni countries? Then you may want to re-consider their reaction to a Sunni dominated Iraq.

Oh and while you are at it -we are still waiting patiently for you to articulate how the surge is actually going to stabilize Iraq, beyond your blind faith in the Bush Admin intellectuals who got us into this mess in the first place.

 

[Uncle Timmy]

Now, accuse me of grandstanding, ignore the gaping holes that I've placed in your plan, accuse me of not having a plan, tell me how your brilliant plan works better than the plan I don't have, picture yourself wearing a three piece suit, drinking tea and eating strumpets with Ba'ath officials in Paris, and start doing the Dirty Bird.

Given The World is Flat thread I'd say this is freaking hilarious!

 

[Uncle Timmy]

Anyone take notice of Senator Lugar (R- Indiana), the ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, comments regarding the surge?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/25/iraq.lugar/index.html

"The costs and risks of continuing down the current path outweigh the potential benefits that might be achieved," Lugar said. "Persisting indefinitely with the 'surge' strategy will delay policy adjustments that have a better chance of protecting our vital interests in the long term."

The writting is on the wall- the surge is not/will not work.........we'd better start looking for alternatives, fast.

 

[Mango]

Originally Posted by 6thGen [ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?p=253331#post253331"]

[/ame]
Now, accuse me of grandstanding, ignore the gaping holes that I've placed in your plan, accuse me of not having a plan, tell me how your brilliant plan works better than the plan I don't have, picture yourself wearing a three piece suit, drinking tea and eating strumpets with Ba'ath officials in Paris, and start doing the Dirty Bird.

Given The World is Flat thread I'd say this is freaking hilarious!

Sounds a lot like flat earthing to me.

 

[Bob]

Bob,
Can you point to where I've brought up patriotism or said that there is no need for diplomacy? The military-industrial complex you keep bringing up is nothing short of conspiracy theory, so I'm not even getting into that. We've debated the justification for war, so I'm not rehashing that. The fact that you believe that anyone who doesn't support your worldview is bought and paid for is not only silly, ignorant and arrogant, it makes debating you fruitless.

Timmy,
You show disdain for sound bites, but you throw this in without qualification. "While American and Israeli strategic interests do not always align, in this case I believe it is in both country?s interest to stabilize the current situation. The surge will not do that."

And you continue to ignore my points about your nonsense plan.

6thGen, I'll go with the late President Eisenhower about the MI complex, as he knew more about the beast than you. The beneficiaries of this war are the corresponding industries supplying and supporting this voluntary war, not the American public. Since your last post, Senators Lugar and Voinovich have publically parted with GW in this loser. There will be no war memorial to this stupid, tragic conflict. I'm still waiting for you to sign up and join the war effort. Try Marines, or better yet, Army infantry. It will be an exciting education for you, and an introduction to adulthood.

 

[30A Skunkape]

6thGen, I'll go with the late President Eisenhower about the MI complex, as he knew more about the beast than you. The beneficiaries of this war are the corresponding industries supplying and supporting this voluntary war, not the American public. Since your last post, Senators Lugar and Voinovich have publically parted with GW in this loser. There will be no war memorial to this stupid, tragic conflict. I'm still waiting for you to sign up and join the war effort. Try Marines, or better yet, Army infantry. It will be an exciting education for you, and an introduction to adulthood.

I know you don't mean that, the part about no memorial that is.

 

[Bob]

I know you don't mean that, the part about no memorial that is.

I meant this conflict is such a lost cause, people will not even want to speak about it, as is the case now. I can't get my neighbors to put up flags on Memorial Day or the 4th of July. If anyone does put forth a memorial when we finally leave, they may have to include all the times we've been over there messing with the keepers of the oil. I'm up to three wars and counting.