Illegal Immigration legislation in Sowal

[Alicia Leonard]

I am just not understanding WHY we can't be flagging these people as part of basic law enforcement or bureaucratic procedure. Not sweeps, not stings, not profiling, just enforcing the immigration status of people UNDER ARREST OR IN CUSTODY.

If they're breaking the law and being stopped/arrested or applying for public benefits, why is immigration enforcement not ever coming into play?

Building a giant fence is an incredibly stupid idea, but not as dumb as not enforcing the law when you have people in custody already. I can understand there being gaps in the database, but it should still be flagging people w/ expired visas etc.

Basically I'm thinking we don't need new laws, we just need to enforce the ones we have.

Short answer from the seven part series I wrote Scoot.

Because the feds don't want locals doing what they term is their job. Locally if you are pulled over you can be arrested or fined for no drivers license or maybe identity theft. First time they are arrested chances are there are no fingerprints on file and many names given are someone else's. ICE states on it's website that dangerous or wanted felon are always their first priority.

I have heard horror stories of people who have had an illegal use their name or social and then post bail. They are never seen again, but a few years down the road the person with the real identity is pulled over for a traffic stop and finds out they have warrants out in their name. Any other way of tracing or tagging someone is gonna be out there because most of these people know how to live under the radar. It may at first sound like a no brainer, in reality, it is anything but.

PS. You are right about laws on the books needing to be enforced. But, locally a person cannot be held for not having proper id. If they bail out for no drivers license then they are free to go if ICE doesn't tag their file. Because being in the country illegally is a federal offense not a local one.

 

[scooterbug44]

I would love to read your series if you could post the link!

I always thought that if you were arrested for a local/minor crime and it was revealed you had an outstanding warrant you were then detained until you could be transferred to the proper federal authorities/facility.

Understand the jurisdictional issues/turf wars, which is why I wasn't suggesting that the local law enforcement be tracking these people down, just doing a computer check and then detaining them (if necessary) for the feds to deal with.

If I got pulled over for speeding and it was discovered that I had committed a bad federal crime, the sheriff wouldn't just let me go.

 

[elgordoboy]

I would love to read your series if you could post the link!

I always thought that if you were arrested for a local/minor crime and it was revealed you had an outstanding warrant you were then detained until you could be transferred to the proper federal authorities/facility.

Understand the jurisdictional issues/turf wars, which is why I wasn't suggesting that the local law enforcement be tracking these people down, just doing a computer check and then detaining them (if necessary) for the feds to deal with.

If I got pulled over for speeding and it was discovered that I had committed a bad federal crime, the sheriff wouldn't just let me go.

This is not being done. The offender (in the case of bad federal crime or state crime for that matter)is being held, sometimes sent to other detention centers, ultimately for deportation.

 

[scooterbug44]

If that is already happening, why do we need this law?

And if they can't verify your identity (for the variety of reasons aleonard said) how do they know they just stopped Scooterbug and not Osama Bin Laden?

And what good does it do to fine people if they are using other people's social #s and fake names?

 

[Alicia Leonard]

I would love to read your series if you could post the link!

I always thought that if you were arrested for a local/minor crime and it was revealed you had an outstanding warrant you were then detained until you could be transferred to the proper federal authorities/facility.

Understand the jurisdictional issues/turf wars, which is why I wasn't suggesting that the local law enforcement be tracking these people down, just doing a computer check and then detaining them (if necessary) for the feds to deal with.

If I got pulled over for speeding and it was discovered that I had committed a bad federal crime, the sheriff wouldn't just let me go.

Thanks, My editor has it in email format but we don't post our articles online. Or there maybe one on another site, I'll look later this week. When he gets back from vacation I'll see if he can dig it up as well.

Now, let me try to clarify. If you are an illegal alien with someone else's id and you get arrested for a minor crime. You are fingerprinted and post bail. They then take off. or if there is no record of you, you post bail and take off. Next there would have to be a national and far reaching way to identify everyone and in a national data base. We have one for offenders. ICE has a separate one for illegals who are wanted for felony crimes mostly. Local law enforcement can hold an offender for a crime committed in their jurisdiction but if they have been identified as illegal they will serve their time here and if ICE doesn't pick them up they have to be released. Locals can't hold for being illegal without a detainer from ICE. IF they are not in ICE data banks they are as good as free.

And if someone uses your id and then commits a crime. You won't get off. You will go to jail until they sort it out


Being illegal is not a crime until caught in the feds eyes and they have too much bubble gum to chew to keep up with everyone.


The biggest economical impact from illegal aliens in small towns from my research is the cost to the law enforcement systems and the courts. They are actually a crossover group with the uninsured where health care is concerned.

It's convoluted and confusing and needs a major overhaul so locals and feds can work together. but if they have never been in the system they usually get a "get out of jail free" pass the first time around.

 

[elgordoboy]

Thanks, My editor has it in email format but we don't post our articles online. Or there maybe one on another site, I'll look later this week. When he gets back from vacation I'll see if he can dig it up as well.

Now, let me try to clarify. If you are an illegal alien with someone else id and you get arrested for a minor crime. You are fingerprinted and post bail. They then take off. or if there is no record of you, you post bail and take off. Next there would have to be a national and far reaching way to identify everyone and in a national data base. We have one for offenders. ICE has a separate one for illegals who are wanted for felony crimes mostly. Local law enforcement can hold an offender for a crime committed in their jurisdiction but if they have been identified as illegal they will serve their time here and if ICE doesn't pick them up they have to be released. Locals can't hold for being illegal without a detainer from ICE. IF they are not in ICE data bank s they are as good as free.

And if someone uses your id and then commits a crime. You won't get off. You will go to jail until they sort it out


Being illegal is not a crime until caught, in the feds eyes.And they have too much bubble gum to chew to keep up with everyone.


The biggest economical impact from illegal aliens in small towns from my research is the cost to the law enforcement systems and the courts. They are actually a cross over group with the uninsured where health care is concerned.

It's convoluted and confusing and needs a major overhaul so locals and feds can work together.

Excellently presented! I would simply add that:
Illegal presence is NOT a crime, it is a civil offense. A civil offense is an infraction of a law that is not a crime. A crime is a violation of the law that is punishable by a fine or a jail sentence. Being in this country illegally is NOT a crime in legal terms.
(I plagiarized the above)
Did you look for/encounter any positive effects when you researched the matter?

 

[Alicia Leonard]

Excellently presented! I would simply add that:
Illegal presence is NOT a crime, it is a civil offense. A civil offense is an infraction of a law that is not a crime. A crime is a violation of the law that is punishable by a fine or a jail sentence. Being in this country illegally is NOT a crime in legal terms.
(I plagiarized the above)
Did you look for/encounter any positive effects when you researched the matter?

Thank you and thanks for the addition. I knew I was leaving something out.

I really enjoyed meeting with a very nice church service that I attended with people who would only give me their first names and one brave soul gave me a photo. That was a positive for me. They weren't nameless faces behind discussions or articles and they were a wonderful group of people. I want everyone to be able to have a better life but we have to fix our immigration system. Bottom line is economics drives illegal immigration and country policy such as oppression after that. Businesses have to be punished to keep it in check. Very few have or have not been fined properly and in an amount that hurts.

I also found the very interesting history of Birthright Citizenship and how we are one of the last countries to honor it. In most other countries one parent has to be a citizen. There is room for much improvement all around.

 

[Matt J]

If that is already happening, why do we need this law?

And if they can't verify your identity (for the variety of reasons aleonard said) how do they know they just stopped Scooterbug and not Osama Bin Laden?

And what good does it do to fine people if they are using other people's social #s and fake names?

Even without racial profiling I'm pretty sure they wouldn't make that mistake. ;-)

 

[scooterbug44]

Illegal presence is NOT a crime, it is a civil offense. A civil offense is an infraction of a law that is not a crime. A crime is a violation of the law that is punishable by a fine or a jail sentence. Being in this country illegally is NOT a crime in legal terms.

This is what I was missing!

I thought that BEING an illegal alien wasn't itself a crime, but that they got you on the technicalities - for violating immigration laws, false papers etc.

 

[Alicia Leonard]

This is what I was missing!

I thought that BEING an illegal alien wasn't itself a crime, but that they got you on the technicalities - for violating immigration laws, false papers etc.

Exactly. Thanks Gordy for filling in the blanks