America slides deeper into depression as Wall Street revels

[scooterbug44]

The presence of unions is not why jobs went overseas - but in many cases the greed and demands of unions made it an easy choice.

Like in many other cases, what started as a good idea got perverted and became a runaway juggernaut w/ no common sense.

 

[futurebeachbum]

When you combine a financial environment that is only concerned with the current quarter's bottom line with a tax/regulatory/labor environment designed to discourage business, off-shoring and out-sourcing is the result.

 

[poppy]

No, my friend kept his position for 20 years simply because his father was a important man in the construction industry. Plain and simple. He's still in the union, just decided that any job was better than none after one year. Non- Union Employers wouldn't consider him, even though he interviewed with full knowledge of the salary level as less. This is because of the inherent attitude prevalent amongst union workers.

Unions initially were successful in controlling the exploitation of labor workers, but it seems over time that the reverse has happened. They made expenses so much higher than non union workers, so yes, goods were eventually sourced out abroad to lower paying workers. A mentality developed to try to give as little work as possible. Things may have been very different had union workers been given stock shares and incenticized to produce a superior product over foreign manufacturers.

I have had much a much different experience with union members than you have. I've had some dealings with the construction trade unions and found they were much more knowledgeable and skilled at their craft than non union workers. The contractors who hired the union members knew they would get their moneys worth because of the training union members received. I was non union and quickly realized I wasn't half as skilled as I thought (damn I hate to admit that). I soon left and persued other interests. I have no knowledge of your friends case but some non union companies will not hire union members for fear they will stir up a sh!t pot among their workers

I could care less if someone joins a union or not, my only time in a union was for three months at the age of sixteen while working at a food store sacking groceries. I didn't like paying the union dues because there wasn't much skill involved in the work and I was paid minimum wage. (I never did understand what the union advantage was in grocery sacking).

If unions become extinct my concern is the workers will once again find themselves with no representation which will be a green light for the companies to exploit them as happened in the past.

I still hope your friend once again finds his way in life.

 

[Minnie]

If unions become extinct my concern is the workers will once again find themselves with no representation which will be a green light for the companies to exploit them as happened in the past.

Who represents the supervisor to the Union worker, No one.

When a worker with less training, experience and education makes more than his boss, has better benefits, and would have to kill someone to get fired, something is wrong with this system.

 

[scooterbug44]

Don't you think that our current legal system makes it unlikely that a major exploitation can take place?

IMO class action and civil suits have made that unlikely and we also have more labor & safety laws.

Agree that education/different training levels in skilled trades who work individually are one good example of a positive reason for unions, but I question their effectiveness and contribution to the more general workplace/salaried positions in the modern world, as at some point unions just become one more self-serving bureaucracy.

My teachers were frequently frustrated by their union - the kids' education was not considered during negotiations and many supposed union "benefits" could have been paid for out of the dues they had to pay................and the cost of the spiffy union headquarters building.

My father was constantly frustrated by the union protecting some deadbeat w/ a lack of work ethic and making dumb rules.

 

[poppy]

Who represents the supervisor to the Union worker, No one.

When a worker with less training, experience and education makes more than his boss, has better benefits, and would have to kill someone to get fired, something is wrong with this system.

Sadly one of the worst positions in a business. The lowest rung on the ladder up and not one of the workers.

Don't you think that our current legal system makes it unlikely that a major exploitation can take place?

IMO class action and civil suits have made that unlikely and we also have more labor & safety laws.

Agree that education/different training levels in skilled trades who work individually are one good example of a positive reason for unions, but I question their effectiveness and contribution to the more general workplace/salaried positions in the modern world, as at some point unions just become one more self-serving bureaucracy.

My teachers were frequently frustrated by their union - the kids' education was not considered during negotiations and many supposed union "benefits" could have been paid for out of the dues they had to pay................and the cost of the spiffy union headquarters building.

My father was constantly frustrated by the union protecting some deadbeat w/ a lack of work ethic and making dumb rules.

I'll say it very plainly, I'm not in a union, do not represent a union and have no relatives in unions, I just feel unions have a place. If the teachers are frustrated by their union they can vote themselves out of it. It doesn't appear the union is representing them so why put up with it? I would not judge all organizations by just one chapter and every company has at least one lazy assed deadbeat in both the the work force and management and it's sad they are protected, but this the exception not the rule.

Yes the current legal system has many protections in the form of legislation passed with the help of labor unions but when they are gone the industry lobbyists will more than likely rewrite these acts and the worker will be screwed again.

 

[Here4Good]

Teachers belong to unions for the legal protection - they know that if a student accuses them of inappropriate behavior, the school district will hang them out to dry, and that the school district can accuse them of any heinous thing and fire them with no hearing.

That's the only reason - I've heard many teachers say that the only reason they join the union is for the legal representation.

 

[30ashopper]

Video: Clusterf#@k to the Poor House - Wall Street Bonuses | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

Balsa wood and baby tears.

 

[scooterbug44]

See why I watch him? :rofl:

 

[poppy]

Teachers belong to unions for the legal protection - they know that if a student accuses them of inappropriate behavior, the school district will hang them out to dry, and that the school district can accuse them of any heinous thing and fire them with no hearing.

That's the only reason - I've heard many teachers say that the only reason they join the union is for the legal representation.

It reads as if you are saying the teachers join the union because they fear they will not be treated fairly by the school district. Shouldn't they and every American worker place their trust and their careers in the hands of their employer knowing they will always do the right thing?