Florida attorney general: healthcare reform unconstitutional?

[Bob]

The senate healthcare bill is dead as of tonight. Starting over with something more liberal is impossible now. The point is moot. We might still get reform, but we won't be getting government mandated care.

we already have government mandated health care for millions of the "haves".

 

[Bob]

I agree. Everyone wants reform, but not mandates as outlined in this bill, which are incredibly expensive. Yeah - no one wants war either. Just thought I'd throw that in so no one feels the need to compare expense of health care to two wars.

i would never point out the obvious to those who wish to economically exclude american citizens affordable health care. our priorities in this country are for the banks, wall street...mi complex. wall street needs help? there's money in one week with no debate. want affordable healthcare for our citizens? every white, numbnut bluehair and military retiree with nothing better to do hits the streets to protect their monthly check whilst holding rascist signs about obama's birth certificate or allegiance to socialism. it's a fascinating dynamic of selective greed.

 

[Lynnie]

i would never point out the obvious to those who wish to economically exclude american citizens affordable health care. our priorities in this country are for the banks, wall street...mi complex. wall street needs help? there's money in one week with no debate. want affordable healthcare for our citizens? every white, numbnut bluehair and military retiree with nothing better to do hits the streets to protect their monthly check whilst holding rascist signs about obama's birth certificate or allegiance to socialism. it's a fascinating dynamic of selective greed.

I know of no one who wants to exclude, Bob. I can speak for myself and everyone I know. I presume and hope that filters into the compassion of every American. I believe we learned a lesson with the bailouts and it's time to move forward.

There were too many mandates in the bill that they considered passing and 'fixing later.' We need responsibility, not another entitlement or tax for doing nothing. If you see people actively holding racists signs, go say something to that person. That's disgusting in my opinion.

 

[futurebeachbum]

i would never point out the obvious to those who wish to economically exclude american citizens affordable health care. our priorities in this country are for the banks, wall street...mi complex. wall street needs help? there's money in one week with no debate. want affordable healthcare for our citizens? every white, numbnut bluehair and military retiree with nothing better to do hits the streets to protect their monthly check whilst holding rascist signs about obama's birth certificate or allegiance to socialism. it's a fascinating dynamic of selective greed.

Its a shame we never see properly constructed polls of the populace about these topics?

Can you guess how the polling would look if they were honestly structured questions? Here are some examples:

Do you support paying more taxes so that big banks and Wall Street can remain profitable?

Do you support paying higher taxes so that big pharma can use the U.S. to fund pharmaceutical research for the world?

Would you mind paying more for your health care so that other people and citizens from other countries can get it for free?

etc...
​

Its probably pretty easy to guess how these polls would go...

 

[WaltonIsOne]

Ok, this post might be long. And I might be up on a soap box briefly. Please forgive me.

To be practical about the healthcare legislation, the worse aspect of the plan was that Americans who exercised their constitutional right NOT TO HAVE ANY HEALTHCARE INSURANCE plan were going to be fined 2.5% of their income. If an American did it more than once, then the government could fine you for up to $250,000 and up to five years in prison. Regardless of Bill McCollum's grandstanding on this matter, those citizens who are on the low end of the economic spectrum who elect not to have heath insurance, or other citizens who make more money yet decide not to purchase health insurance, would have their "right to choose" violated. I did not see anyone come out to defend the right to freely chose to have health insurance or not, except for "Blow Off" Bill McCollum who only made such a move for political gain.

There are hundreds of billions of dollars that have been sucked out of cigarette and other sin taxes, medicare, medicaid, state sales taxes, etc etc. that have been drained from the American public that were to be, could and should have been used for providing healthcare to those who can not afford it. Including subsidizing insurance policies for individual people who can not be a part of a large "pool" that would help keep their insurance rates down.

Instead our State and Federal governments and their employees deem it more important to have posh office space, cadillac retirement plans, cadillac health benefits, and salaries that are far too high and often higher that the local population (i.e. Walton County Employees for example). This is where the problem lies, in government spending itself.

Meanwhile, you would not believe the number of government workers who should not even be employed by the government, and that would include Bill McCollum who gives us citizens 22 hours of his time a week at a cost of $131,000 per year. That is $114.51 per hour he gets paid by you and me. Can you believe it? Plus who knows how much Blow Off Bill's medical insurance and retirement plan cost the state and us.

Just take a look at the silly "Blue" signs in South Walton (at an expense of over $200,000) or the (unnecessary) "Safety Town"-like signs placed down the entire bike path on 30A. Or, the marble floors in the Walton County Court House. What a waste of cash and our tax dollars. So much tax money is wasted in this State and in our County. It is time for it to be stopped by us "regular" folks.

The only way to make things less expensive is to reduce the costs necessary to produce a product or deliver a service. And not by taxation, the redistribution of wealth or using the IRS to collect a "lack of health insurance fine" of 2.5% from citizens who exercise their free will. That is cold hard economics.

On the healthcare front, unneccessary costs also need to be eliminated including the high cost of liability insurance the doctors and medical practices must pay. There are no reasons why hospitals have patient rooms that are as nice as a 4 star hotel. I could go on and on. The cash investment has to be focused on technology, research, personnel, training, and anything that makes healthcare delivery better and more efficient.

That includes not looking after people who are not legal citizens of our country or legal residents. Sorry, if you are here illegally and want healthcare, then go back to the country where you emigrated from. We just can not afford it. We have our own to look after if they need our help. And giving you free healthcare takes free healthcare away from an American.

So, what can we do about it? We have got to replace all elected government officials starting at the County Level, the State Level, then on to the Federal Level. They all must go. It does not matter if you like them, they do a good job, or they stand for a principle common to you (or at least they made you believe they did).

Once we elect new, nonincumbent officials, after their first term, we vote them out again. No matter how well they did their job.

You want to see a group of employees in the government start working for their money?

Just let them know that they are not employed for life and that they can disappear at the throw of a voting machine lever, the tap of a touch screen, or through the punch of a "Chad".

It is time for the citizens of Walton County, the State of Florida and the Country to get our governments under control.

If you have a drivers license in this state, you had to swear to uphold the Florida Constitution in order to obtain your license. It is time for you and I to step up and do just that. Let us start here in Walton County and in Florida. If we can clean out the rats at the local and state level, they will never make it to Washington.

Thanks for reading this post. Hopefully you have not nodded off.


"Citizens are stronger when they stick together" (Quote from WaltonIsOne)

 

[Matt J]

WaltonIsOne, what's is your position on abortion?

 

[WaltonIsOne]

WaltonIsOne, what's is your position on abortion?

My position on abortion is that abortions should not be funded by taxpayer money.


"Citizens are stronger when they stick together" (Quote from WaltonIsOne)

 

[jensieblue]

My position on abortion is that abortions should not be funded by taxpayer money.


"Citizens are stronger when they stick together" (Quote from WaltonIsOne)

What is your position on providing adequate funding for facilities that provide medical care to the medically indigent? Whether individuals choose or can afford to purchase medical insurance, they and their family members, will and do get sick, are injured and face other circumstances requiring care. What is your financial obligation, the public's obligation, to these people? Do you support legislation allowing medical facilities to refuse care? Do you expect physicians and others to provide care out of their own pockets, just not yours. I can't help but think the logical outcome of your line of thinking is like the pictures out of Haiti where bodies of the dead are pushed to the side of the road. Is that what you envision as our future?

 

[WaltonIsOne]

What is your position on providing adequate funding for facilities that provide medical care to the medically indigent? Whether individuals choose or can afford to purchase medical insurance, they and their family members, will and do get sick, are injured and face other circumstances requiring care. What is your financial obligation, the public's obligation, to these people? Do you support legislation allowing medical facilities to refuse care? Do you expect physicians and others to provide care out of their own pockets, just not yours. I can't help but think the logical outcome of your line of thinking is like the pictures out of Haiti where bodies of the dead are pushed to the side of the road. Is that what you envision as our future?

Let me make it clear, I, like many other citizens, have paid plenty of health insurance premiums into system over a 30 year period, pay taxes like everyone else, and paid additional taxes into medicare/medicaid as a result of owning a business. What the government chooses to do with the tax money, is one of the a primary points in my original posting.

Ok Jensieblue, let us dissect your question:

1. "Medically Indigent", if one presumes that your term means the same as financially indigent, then as stated before, the tax money has been collected by the government already for programs like Medicaid that should have more than enough funding to cover the costs of "medically indigent" folks. Remove the high costs of government administration (posh office spaces, high employee salaries and cadillac benefits for employees and general operational waste), then even more funds would be available to help the "medically "indigent (i.e. financially indigent) to whom you refer.

You will also note that every county in the state also has Public Health Services Department to help those who are "medically indigent" and who can not obtain health services through Medicaid. This includes County Public Health Services Department operations supported through the Florida Department of Health. These services are paid for by County Tax dollars and State Tax Dollars. Again, our tax dollars at work.

There is no "public obligation" to provide healthcare for anyone, except (in my mind) for those who can not look after themselves (babies, children, people with certain disabilities, and tax payers who paid into Medicare system, etc.). I do personally believe that the "able" should look after the "unable" and the County, State and Federal Governments do that already. Versus an emerging view in this country the that "able" should look after the "unwilling" or the "lazy".

I also personally believe that contributing to charity organizations that provide healthcare (i.e. the Red Cross, Doctors Without Boarders, numerous Christian organizations, etc) is a charitable responsibility that we all should undertake financially or at least consider volunteering our time for.

As you many know, you and I, all all other US tax payers pay for the operation of United States Agency for International Development (USAID), a US government agency that is specifically set up to deal with situations similar to what has taken place in Haiti. USAID services do provide healthcare to the poor of the world.

2. I support legislation to support the refusal of care to non US citizens and/or illegal alien residents who can not pay for the healthcare they require themselves. If non-US citizens and/or illegal resident aliens require healthcare, then they should all their country of emigration's consulate.

3. Your "Can't help but thinking the logical outcome" point - The natural catastrophe and the resulting emergency health care needs of the Haitian people is clearly not the same situation as was being discussed in this forum. If you compare the two, well that is your prerogative to do so.

Personally, when it comes to the Haiti situation, we are all pitching in to help through our tax dollars, charitable contributions, etc. etc.

I struggle to consider the emergency healthcare situation in Haiti as being the same as, for example, some large group (millions) of 20 to 30 year old persons who makes $35k to $100k a year and who elect not to buy health insurance then demanding "free health care" to be funded by you or I.

If you are comparing these two situations as a part of "following the line of thinking" presented in my original post, then I would politely suggest that you go back and re-read the posting in order to comprehend its entire content and meaning.


I can assure you that the bulldozers are uncessary in attempting to comprehend the line of thinking presented to date.

Thank for responding to the post.

"Citizens are stronger when they stick together" (Quote from WaltonIsOne)

 

[Matt J]

Remove the high costs of government administration (posh office spaces, high employee salaries and cadillac benefits for employees and general operational waste

That's laughable. I'm betting the highest paid person employed by Medicare/Medicaid probably makes less than $500,000.00 per year if even close to that.

Health insurers asked to detail executive pay - Sep. 1, 2009