4 arrests $ 800 million

[sunspotbaby]

I saw this today and thought it pretty interesting. I don't recall ever having seen an air marshall, but i haven't flown in a long time either. Seems like a lot of money for little results.

Air marshals say service roiled with cronyism, chaos - CNN.com

Last week, President Obama asked Congress for an additional $85 million to boost the air marshals program, known by its acronym FAMS, after the foiled attack aboard the jet coming from the Netherlands.

U.S. officials have charged Nigerian Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab with attempting to blow up the airliner. He was subdued by passengers and crew.

No air marshals were on the flight, generating additional criticism of the service.

 

[scooterbug44]

I would think common sense says they would be most effective on large planes or international flights - not small regional jets.

It says they made only 4 arrests, which seems low just thinking of the number of belligerent drunks and pissed off passengers on flights. I thought they also fined airlines for infractions - like passengers using cell phones & electronics etc.

 

[Will B]

I saw this today and thought it pretty interesting. I don't recall ever having seen an air marshall, but i haven't flown in a long time either...

You wouldn't see them even if they were on the flight. They travel as John Q Public. That the whole idea behind their effectiveness...you don't know if they are there or not.

Here's the issue. You oobviously can't put a marshall on every flight in the US as there are about 28,000 per day. You pick and choose the ones that make sense and, then, add in randomness. Additionally, they tend to fly on high risk high flights. Given the number of flights each day only about 1% ever have a marshall(s) on board.

The air marshall program has been hobbled by high turnover, burnout, morale issues, and training issues since day one. The article really doesn't point out anything new at all. It was probably just time for somebody to run it up the flag pole again...

 

[sunspotbaby]

You wouldn't see them even if they were on the flight. They travel as John Q Public. That the whole idea behind their effectiveness...you don't know if they are there or not.

Here's the issue. You oobviously can't put a marshall on every flight in the US as there are about 28,000 per day. You pick and choose the ones that make sense and, then, add in randomness. Additionally, they tend to fly on high risk high flights. Given the number of flights each day only about 1% ever have a marshall(s) on board.

The air marshall program has been hobbled by high turnover, burnout, morale issues, and training issues since day one. The article really doesn't point out anything new at all. It was probably just time for somebody to run it up the flag pole again...

I was hoping you'd chime in. Just one of those articles that leaves you saying, "huh?" You have some insight that we don't.... Thanks.

For funn, they should just appoint or take a lottery on the passenger that wants to take down a terrorist. Imagine all the superheroes we'd have in the air?

 

[Lynnie]

You wouldn't see them even if they were on the flight. They travel as John Q Public. That the whole idea behind their effectiveness...you don't know if they are there or not.

Here's the issue. You oobviously can't put a marshall on every flight in the US as there are about 28,000 per day. You pick and choose the ones that make sense and, then, add in randomness. Additionally, they tend to fly on high risk high flights. Given the number of flights each day only about 1% ever have a marshall(s) on board.

The air marshall program has been hobbled by high turnover, burnout, morale issues, and training issues since day one. The article really doesn't point out anything new at all. It was probably just time for somebody to run it up the flag pole again...

Yes, unlike El Al, the Israeli airline, in which they place fully armed, now plains clothed marshalls on every flight. They used to visible marshalls.

I would have no issue spending money for more marshalls. I also have no issue with them being visible. El Al has had great success with no hijackings since they began this policy. Israel is one tough little democracy! I have great respect for them, their strength and determination.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Air marshals: Lessons from Israel

 

[Will B]

Yes, unlike El Al, the Israeli airline, in which they place fully armed, now plains clothed marshalls on every flight. They used to visible marshalls....

El Al also profiles the heck out of their passenger which is something that this politically correct hamstrung country would never allow. Checking in for an El Al flight is almost like getting a psychological profile done.

...and which country doesn't have the problems with terrorists trying to hijack and blow up planes?

 

[Lynnie]

El Al also profiles the heck out of their passenger which is something that this politically correct hamstrung country would never allow. Checking in for an El Al flight is almost like getting a psychological profile done.

...and which country doesn't have the problems with terrorists trying to hijack and blow up planes?

After 9/11, I was pointed at and pulled out of line on every flight I took for about the next two years. Bags rummaged through - whole nine yards - all but strip search. Dark hair, dark eyes and olive complexion. Profiled, but not officially. And, I had no issue with any of it.

 

[Matt J]

I personally have no problem with profiling. If it's done correctly and with training, not just some Bubba with TSA deciding who looks like a terrorist and who doesn't.

That said unfortunately we have that pesky thing called the bill of rights and constitution that the Supreme Court (yeah those jokers depending on you views) has decided doesn't allow for profiling.

Of course if we did have profiling would that mean that any white male 20-40 should have been pulled from line and given extra scrutiny after the Oklahoma City bombings?

 

[scooterbug44]

I am all for profiling - not racial profiling because there isn't a "typical" terrorist look, but behavioral profiling.

How many terrorists have checked luggage, had a prior travel record/frequent flier number, travel in a group, and had round trip tickets?

Was under the impression we already did this to some extent and that is also why it is such a long walk to get from the plane to customs.

 

[Will B]

I am all for profiling - not racial profiling because there isn't a "typical" terrorist look, but behavioral profiling.

El Al's check in procedure is designed around behavioral profiling. It's not fast, and it's designed to provoke uncomfortable reactions. The longer somebody has to sweat the greater the chance that they will exhibit behaviors that will require them to be singled out. Every step of the way from that point to the airplane door is designed to give "screeners" ample time to evaluate passengers.

While I've never been through an El Al check in, I have endured a similar check in when flying out of Prague just after the revolution. Simple questions like "do you have anything that can be used as a weapon?'"

"Uhm...no."

"What about shirt hangars? They can be used as weapons."

How do you react to that? Say yes they can, I never thought of that, or deny it? It really messes with your head...