Sanctuary by the sea trying to stake out a "private beach"

[jodiFL]

Private surveys will have to coincide with FDEP surveys otherwise you have an argument as to metes and bounds and who owns what (clouded or uninsurable title = no debt financing)).

YEp.. and guess what agencies (FDEP maybe??) current surveys are used to determine any PRIVATE current topo surveys? That is why the FLorida statues make it very clear how and who may determine the MHWL.

 

[Ari Silverstein]

YEp.. and guess what agencies (FDEP maybe??) current surveys are used to determine any PRIVATE current topo surveys?

I'll tell you as I just received the findings regarding the establishment of the MHWL on several hundred acres of inland, tidal mangrove swamps. The state agency specifically that deals with these findings is the Survey and Mapping of the State Lands, Div of FDEP (Roy Maddox, Lead).

They used a mathematical formula whose inputs are a combination of aerials over 19 years...since there are no current FDEP (initiated and purchased) coastline and sovereign submerged boundaries on these tracts and few historical ones. This is true for the majority of the coast lines, it is impossible and impractical to keep up to date on MHWL/ECL changes. FDEP does respond to inquiry and challenge.

In order to obtain a financable and clear title, FDEP and the Landowner need to agree in writing on the MHWL and/or obtain a deed which delineates the boundaries as issued by the Board of Trustees Internal Improvement (Trust) Fund (aka TIIFT deed).

If this cannot be agreed, then it typically ends up in a Govenors Cabinet meeting or a civil lawsuit for determination. All you have to have is two or more surveyors who do not agree.

The landowner has the onus for setting forth the challenge not determining the MHWL in most practical littoral rights issues.

Considering that the US and especially Florida are coastline dominated (50% live in coastal counites?), this issue is extremely significant.

That is why the FLorida statues make it very clear how and who may determine the MHWL.

The statutes lay out the processes but the end result of the processes requires agreement and coordination between the state and the private property owner. Without that, you may find that you have an uninsurable title, or a qualified title and a potentially serious land use issue ((especailly if you are wanting littoral (water) access or submerged land leases or relief from those leases)).

 

[Ari Silverstein]

Hm. Interesting how many posters simply assume that this bruhaha is all because of a bunch of rich, "trust fund" babies greedily depriving innocent folks of their god given beach rights. I guess the facts are not important to some people. The facts are that there is a huge state park and public beaches right next to this development's beaches. All that Sanctuary is asking is that folks go a bit left rather than right when they get to the end of the boardwalk. Yes, property rights are valuable and people pay good money for beach rights. They are entitled to enjoy those rights without trespass. Sanctuary does not bother fishermen or waders but it does ask that folks set up their own umbrellas and chairs on the expansive nearby public beach.

Well, clarity is often clouded by sincere but emotional goobledegob.

 

[scooterbug44]

Or people who can't see the forest for the trees. :roll:

All I said was that the property owner wanting to evict someone from "their" beach has to have a recent survey to prove where the MHWL is.

 

[Desso]

I actually own beach front property. I don't live on it. I would much rather keep what's on it. Nothing. Personally and as a Floridian, I would be embarrassed and ashamed to be running people of "my" beach. Absolutely absurd. Customary and reasonable use is fair to me. Clean up, follow the dune walkway, and fill in your holes in the sand. Plenty of room for everybody on our beaches.

 

[Ari Silverstein]

I actually own beach front property. I don't live on it. I would much rather keep what's on it. Nothing. Personally and as a Floridian, I would be embarrassed and ashamed to be running people of "my" beach. Absolutely absurd. Customary and reasonable use is fair to me. Clean up, follow the dune walkway, and fill in your holes in the sand. Plenty of room for everybody on our beaches.

Altruistic but potentially very costly.

How will you feel when a person you have never met trips over a beach chair landward of the Mean High Water Line put there by a person who you never met, breaks a leg, and you get sued by an attorney you never met?

If you are a condo association and you fail to meet your responsibility to the condo owners to protect the community from just this kind of legal aggressiveness, then what is it that you are going to tell your Owners at the meeting to discuss this $500,000 liability?

The facts are plain and simple. Private property exists above the MHWL, we bought it and we must take both the pleasure and the responsibility for it.

The rest is all emotion.

 

[Ari Silverstein]

All I said was that the property owner wanting to evict someone from "their" beach has to have a recent survey to prove where the MHWL is.

Having a recent survey unverified by FDEP is valueless. Having a recent, verified survey without proper markers to visibly set aside your littoral properties is valueless.

What is valuable is staked, separated private property that a sheriff can easily determine has been trespassed.

Then and only then can you expect and demand an eviction, a prosecution and the appropriate law enforcement actions.

 

[John R]

So, we can expect to see a bunch of silversteinlandburgs all roped/fenced/chained off all up amd down the beach? That will attract so many to this area.

 

[Ari Silverstein]

So, we can expect to see a bunch of <omit offensive name-calling> all roped/fenced/chained off all up amd down the beach? That will attract so many to this area.

Entirely possible depending on the US Supreme Court rulings upcoming.

 

[Ari Silverstein]

One develpement actually stuck an American flag next to private beach sign. As if that is patriotic.It's more like capitalism run amuck.Our beaches and all of our coastal dune lakes are for everyone to share, cherish, and preserve.

Correct.

Just stay seaward of the Mean High Water Line and create no obstruction or hindrances that would violate the private property owners rights. Which are guaranteed by the State Of Florida.

The only issue with the private property sign is he had the wrong flag.