US Supreme Court says Florida can Widen Beaches

[GoodWitch58]

This activist Supreme Court that does not understand property rights is an outrage. I think they must have been looking at European law for precedent!

Anyone wanna blow off some steam by playing beach volleyball? I know where there is a nice net:funn:

 

[miznotebook]

This activist Supreme Court that does not understand property rights is an outrage. I think they must have been looking at European law for precedent!

My theory is that it was the influence of all the soccer games on television lately! ;-)

 

[futurebeachbum]

try FL statute 177.27 Section 14 & 15

Thanks Murray.

I looked all over and couldn't find that.

It seems kind of vague. The mean over 19 years. It doesn't really say how often its measured, how its measured, etc... Seems like a lot of room for a lawyer to maneuver in.

 

[BeachSiO2]

The mean is an elevation not a location. Every day, there are a number of tide gauges around the state measuring the water level. From that data, they use a tidal epoch (19 years) to calculate the average of all high tides measured during that period. That average is then "corrected" due to storms, etc. That elevation is then the new MHW elevation until the next tidal epoch is over. To find the mean high water line, a surveyor would go to the state's labins website and look up the MHW elevation for a given area. In sowal, it's about 1.06 NGVD, depending on where you are. The surveyor would then go to the beach and measure profiles along the beach and into the water in a shore perpindicular direction. From that profile, a surveyor could identify the mean high water elevation location. The surveyor would then move east or west down the beach and do the profile again. Once the mean high water elevation is located in at least two locations then the surveyor could connect the dots and have the current mean high water line location. Typically, the profiles would be no further than about 200 feet apart but could be closer if the beach shape has undulations within that 200 feet, or if they don't need to know that large of a distance. This is why the location may change from day to day as sand bars "weld" on shore. Hope this helps.

 

[wrobert]

This is great news for free beaches. this should kill all the scoundrels putting up private property signs. JUST FOR EVERYONES INFO. 6 WEEKS AGO SANCTUARY BY THE SEA CALLED THE POLICE ON A BEACH TRESPASSER. POLIE CAME OUT TOOK HIS PICTURE AND GAVE CITATION. COUNTY ATTORNEY TOLD SANCTUARY UNLESS YOU SURVEY THE PROPERTY DAILY YOU HAVE NO LEGAL BOUNDRY SO THE COMPLEX CAN NO LONGER LEGALLY ENFORCE THE BOUNDRYS

Maybe I missed something but all I got out of the decision was that IF a beach re-nourishment project was done, then the added sand became public and the property owners whose property touched the water or had a deed that said it went to the water's edge, lost that and the line was now where it was before the sand was added.

I do not see how this changes anything on non-re-nourished beaches. I really do not see how it changes much of anything other than now allowing some projects to move forward that may have been in limbo.

I do believe it has a strong possibility of lowering property values due to the removal of the uniqueness of the property. But by how much, the public will have to see as sales move forward.

 

[futurebeachbum]

Maybe I missed something but all I got out of the decision was that IF a beach re-nourishment project was done, then the added sand became public and the property owners whose property touched the water or had a deed that said it went to the water's edge, lost that and the line was now where it was before the sand was added.

Are there deeds that legally go to the water's edge? Regardless of what phase the tide is in? Do they own to the water's edge at low tide?

 

[gmarc]

You're correct legally it changes nothing and it never did.BUT PEOPLE TRYING TO ENFORCE PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS WERE COUNTING ON A NOD FROM THE SUPREME CT TO BACK THERE CHARGE.by voting no the supreme court took away a degree of rights for private property rights by saying we can extend this beach right in front of your property and you can't stop us. its saying to a degree the supreme ct believes in the beach is for the public and thats why they voted in allowing the county to extend the beach front.as far as private property rights go the bruden is on the owner"to legally show on a daily basis were the property line is". In a court of law legally in this case means a new survey every day.

 

[Em]

[FONT=&quot]Florida Statute:
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]177.081 Dedication and approval.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]-- [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](3) When a tract or parcel of land has been subdivided and a plat thereof bearing the dedication executed by the owners of record and mortgagees having a record interest in the lands subdivided, and when the approval of the governing body has been secured and recorded in compliance with this part, all streets, alleys, easements, rights-of-way, and public areas shown on such plat, unless otherwise stated, shall be deemed to have been dedicated to the public for the uses and purposes thereon stated. However, nothing herein shall be construed as creating an obligation upon any governing body to perform any act of construction or maintenance within such dedicated areas except when the obligation is voluntarily assumed by the governing body.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]***********[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This law appears to address things like the beach, in Blue Mtn Beach s/d. If it isn't noted otherwise, it is public. The recorded plat labels the beach as, "Beach," which is no different than labeling the Gulf of Mexico and Big Redfish Lake. It simply identifies the property as beach, which by this law, would seem to be regarded as "public."
[/FONT]

 

[BeachSiO2]

Are there deeds that legally go to the water's edge? Regardless of what phase the tide is in? Do they own to the water's edge at low tide?

No, they own to the location on the beach where the currently accepted Mean High Water elevation is based on the current tidal epoch.

Some days their ownership could be above the wet sand if there is a strong north wind pushing the water offshore. Some days, it could be underwater if there is a strong south wind pushing the water onshore. Some days it could be exactly at the upland limit of the wrack line. Some days it could be mid-way up the beach face in the wet sand below the wrack line but above the water. Some days.... I hope this clarifies why the ONLY important part of Mean High Water is the elevation and not a line.

 

[NotDeadYet]

No, they own to the location on the beach where the currently accepted Mean High Water elevation is based on the current tidal epoch.

Some days their ownership could be above the wet sand if there is a strong north wind pushing the water offshore. Some days, it could be underwater if there is a strong south wind pushing the water onshore. Some days it could be exactly at the upland limit of the wrack line. Some days it could be mid-way up the beach face in the wet sand below the wrack line but above the water. Some days.... I hope this clarifies why the ONLY important part of Mean High Water is the elevation and not a line

.

This makes me wonder.... do most property owners with these deeds understand this?? Did the writers of the deeds fully understand this? Was the statutory definition of MHW already in place when the first of these old deeds were written? How did these people ever think they could draw a line in the sand?