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13,000 protest Governor's plan to change collective bargaining for public employees

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They have organized and negotiated far better terms than can be supported. The private sector is what drives gov't spending thus gov't jobs and salaries. If you kill private sector jobs it trickles into forcing gov't cuts.


Okay, how has excessive government spending killed jobs over the past five years? In just about every case, governments have consistently cut actual tax rates with the increase in revenue coming from quantifiable economic growth.

Thing is, I'm not sold on the idea that broad spectrum tax cuts are the answer to creating large numbers of quantifiable new jobs in Florida. Okay, small business X saves $5K in taxes in the next fiscal year. This is not enough to directly hire a full time employee. So to claim the tax savings create job growth, you have to delve into indirect routes and multipliers. If the business owner decides to use that $5K to beef up reserve funds, you're effectively not getting job growth from it. If they take the profits and go on vacation out of state, they're not benefiting Florida's employment situation.

Okay, they're going to put those savings back into their businesses. Do they do so by altering inventory? Where does that new inventory come from? Do many hands in Florida touch that inventory along the way, or do they order directly from an out of state or international vendor? Unless they're ordering through Florida vendors, the state doesn't get the benefit of that multiplier involved.

Do they physically expand? (okay, for $5k, you're probably talking minor structural alterations) When they order construction supplies, how much of that money stays in Florida? (insert the statistics about how much money stays in the community if you order your drywall from a local building supply store instead of Home Depot) And how much of that $5K will go to construction workers, preferably of the legally able to work in Florida sort? And how many of those $5K projects does it take in order for Joe Construction Wroker to make a modest $25K a year and be considered to be fully employed?

How much does the state lose in tax revenue to create one full time job with broad-based tax cuts? And does this compensate for the loss of a state employee who spends their salary largely within the state of Florida, generating multipliers of their own? I suspect it's a heckava lot more than what you lose when you have targeted tax cuts to businesses who can prove they're going to add jobs to the system because of those targeted tax breaks and abatements. Every state already does those kinds of deals; Alabama does them sublimely- look at all the high wage auto jobs the state has drawn by taking that targeted approach rather than going broad-based.

I know some will say 'well then the gub'mint is picking winners and losers' but if you look at how those programs typically operate, if you have a good idea and what seems like a workable business plan, then you're typically going to get some serious tax releief as well as additional infrastructure assistance. (see Scripps Research)
 
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Collective Bargaining isn't a basic human right. For the love of God..

I disagree, but that's arguable.

There should never be an authority that trumps the will of the people. Go start your own Country if you really believe that.

Never on the Sowal message board have I seen a statement that was so misguided and incorrect. Our basic human rights have never been based on the will of the people. I don't feel it's necessary for me to cite numerous historical examples in this country in which the will of the people allowed for severe and cruel violations of basic civil rights.
 
You think civil service employees in Wisconsin have a "basic human right" to collectively bully taxpayers into providing Cadillac health plans? :roll: Ok, now I see the disconnect in this discussion.

I never looked at bargaining and negotiating to get what you want as bullying. Therein lies the disconnect.
 
I disagree, but that's arguable.



Never on the Sowal message board have I seen a statement that was so misguided and incorrect. Our basic human rights have never been based on the will of the people. I don't feel it's necessary for me to cite numerous historical examples in this country in which the will of the people allowed for severe and cruel violations of basic civil rights.
while listening to country music
 
The bill was up for debate for over three weeks. The democrats were AWOL for the entire time. Debate involves two parties being present. Your party bowed out of the discussion, so your party lost. Who's fault is that? The party that was there waiting?
debate, is that the word?
 
Democrats aren't known for their ability to involve themselves in adult conversations. It?s always more of an emotional response. :roll:

I see. Kind of how republicans respond to construction of mosques, flag burning, a woman's right to choose, gay marrriage, gays in the military. I could be here all day.
 
In 2010, Megan Sampson was named an Outstanding First Year Teacher in Wisconsin. A week later, she got a layoff notice from the Milwaukee Public Schools. Why would one of the best new teachers in the state be one of the first let go? Because her collective-bargaining contract requires staffing decisions to be made based on seniority.

Ms. Sampson got a layoff notice because the union leadership would not accept reasonable changes to their contract. Instead, they hid behind a collective-bargaining agreement that costs the taxpayers $101,091 per year for each teacher, protects a 0% contribution for health-insurance premiums, and forces schools to hire and fire based on seniority and union rules.

..

The unions say they are ready to accept concessions, yet their actions speak louder than words. Over the past three weeks, local unions across the state have pursued contracts without new pension or health-insurance contributions. Their rhetoric does not match their record on this issue.

Local governments can't pass budgets on a hope and a prayer. Beyond balancing budgets, our reforms give schools?as well as state and local governments?the tools to reward productive workers and improve their operations. Most crucially, our reforms confront the barriers of collective bargaining that currently block innovation and reform.


When Gov. Mitch Daniels repealed collective bargaining in Indiana six years ago, it helped government become more efficient and responsive. The average pay for Indiana state employees has actually increased, and high-performing employees are rewarded with pay increases or bonuses when they do something exceptional.
Passing our budget-repair bill will help put similar reforms into place in Wisconsin. This will be good for the Badger State's hard-working taxpayers. It will also be good for state and local government employees who overwhelmingly want to do their jobs well.

Scott Walker: Why I'm Fighting in Wisconsin - WSJ.com

Unions care about the kids? Nope.
 
Please put your things in order because you will be killed and your familes [sic] will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks. Please explain to them that this is because if we get rid of you and your families then it will save the rights of 300,000 people and also be able to close the deficit that you have created. I hope you have a good time in hell. Read below for more information on possible scenarios in which you will die.

Civility Alert: WI Protesters Tell GOP Senators ?YOU WILL DIE!? ? The Greenroom

Our new age of civility continues to unravel. Where's the liberal outrage?
 
This liberal was busy being pissed about property damage.

And publicizing idiotic acts like this to get ratings just encourages this kind of behavior.
 
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