I see the Deepwater/Horizon online claim center is now open. How can loss of rental income be judged when the year before was first year rental was available? Is loss of expected increase in income a valid claim? Do you real estate sales and rental personal expect a surge in claims, or do you think it was mostly covered in the BP claim period? Do most workers and businesses think they were treated fairly?
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Deepwater/horizon online claim-loss of rental income
- Thread starter John T
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Historical data is the only sure method of determining claims. GCCF methodology primarily used the previous year for future projections which was not a very good year for most businesses. The methodology for the new claims center has not been approved. It will be November before the court will decide. Depending on that methodology will there be more claims or less. I am absolutely certain that small businesses were not treated fairly but it remains to be seen if the new system will improve the fairness. In my opinion the so called settlement was for the lawyers and not the businesses affected. The steering committee was primarily interested in cutting the deal to insure a quicker payment for the lawyers with very minimum billed hours. Therefore the windfall goes to the lawyers and BP as their profits are already back to 37 million dollars per day mark. BP never even had to sweat this disaster. Therefore the saying "the bigger you are the harder you fall" has now become obsolete. Large corporations have minimized their exposure in the "too big to fail" reality of our current financial system.
Ray, you are absolutely correct. I did "complain" back in 2010, 2011 and I am still complaining about BP. I will go out of my way to avoid purchasing a BP product. BP is a mega profit taker, a mega environmental disaster maker and has completed distorted the truth regarding the pollution and causes. I can say with absolute conviction that the pollution disaster affected my ability to generate income and the timing of the disaster created losses for me that I will never overcome regardless of how tourism comes back. Every business situation is different and I know that you understand that. I agree with you that a few hourly workers benefitted more than they were harmed. I disagree with you in that BP did as well as they could in preventing the disaster and compensating businesses that had legitimate losses.
I believe that you may have missed much of my motivation for complaining. Maybe you believe that most businesses including mine are just trying to get something for nothing. If that is the case I adamantly disagree with you. I hope that you would agree with me that for every mistake or choice we make whether it personal or business related has consequences. The only consequence for any large corporation is numbers (profit) because that is the way they operate. They do not have a conscience and operating the corporation just becomes a matter of manipulating profits. Therefore the only consequence that matters is whatever affects their profits. Again, I believe that you will agree that if there were no consequences for our behavior then this would be a very mean, ruthless and chaotic society. The only way for society to prevent this behavior is to impose consequences. In this case the money that BP spent was a drop in the bucket. This was a serious environmental and human tragedy. It would have been prevented if the company had better leadership (ceo's and managers). Everything starts at the top and trickles down. People died. Plants died. Marine life died. Entire ecosystems will be affected for years if not decades. If you or I had caused an accident and someone dies from it there could be criminal charges brought against us. I hope you see that our entire political, judicial and economic systems fail us when there is so much money at stake that we can not hold people accountable. Our government allowed BP to determine the methodology to calculate loses, advertise complete fabrications and charge more at the gas pumps. As a small business person this is unacceptable on so many levels that it overwhelms me. Please try to see this from the perspective of another pollution disaster off our beaches and the consequences for all of us that live and work here. Keep the pressure on BP to change their ways or go out of business.
Thank you for your business. I apologize for the empty trailers. I gear up each year based on the previous three year trend in sales. I do not want to have too much inventory because it is an organic product and does not store well. The product is labor intensive and requires accurate projections in sales. The production requires trained labor that does not mind working in hot, dusty, mosquito infested working conditions.The empty trailers are due to the problem with projecting sales and weather conditions and not above normal sales. My sales are lower this year than the last two years because I failed to understand the market and not for any other reason. I have not complained about sales this year however the problems created by the oil spill economic disaster in 2010 created a loss of skilled and trained labor that I have not been able to replace. It is not as easy as you may think to replace this type of labor.
As a matter of fact before this year I was not sure sales would ever rebound to the 2007, 2008 and 2009 yearly sales. In addition our business invested in an expansion into an outdoor market with produce, food service and patio furniture that was to open on July 1st 2010. If you recall you would have notice a very expensive food trailer by our barn. Sales bottomed out beginning in May 2010 and did not recover until apparently this year if we had been able to project the market better. The food trailer required a particular type of business partner that could operate the food trailer and outdoor market sales. I lost this person that was an excellent chef. The lack of cash flow and the uncertainity of the oil spill effect completely destroyed our business plan and I lost these skilled people in both the outdoor market and pine straw production. I have already spent too much time explaining this but in effect I lost a lot of time, money, equipment and people. But for the oil spill I would not have has such loses. GCCF/BP's methodology in determining loss is a joke but what resources do a small business person have to fight a huge corporation? Lawyers are about $300.00 an hour and up.
Again, I believe that you are missing the basic premise of my complaints. I can overcome investment loses with hard work but what if this happens again? How do we know that it will not happen again? Regulation does not work for these multi-billion dollar corporations. Heck we do not even have the technology to go down a mile below the surface to make sure the well is not leaking for goodness sake. In my opinion the only way to insure this does not happen again is for the polluter and killer of life to face severe consequences. Please explain to me why you believe that BP cares about you and me and our paradise or the environment in general. Please explain to me what severe consequences has the company faced. They have mutiple environmental and human disasters on their record. How have they suffered and who in their organization has suffered? Many local businesses have suffered to various degrees including mine for absolutely nothing that we did or did not do. There are many researchers who believe that the effects of the oil spill continue and have put the Gulf ecosystem at a much higher risk for future problems. We should all be concerned about this uncertainity because we value our resources. I do not want this to ever happen again and therefore I will keep complaining probably until I die.
Yes, if your business cuts corners and causes pollution and loss of life there will be an associated fear from normal human behavior to avoid those areas affected. It is a cause an affect reasoning. The cause of the economic disaster was created by the choices that BP executives made in drilling. In a juror's mind you only have to establish the link between how the local economy was behaving before those corners were cut and then after. BP lawyers will try to complicate the reasoning just as you are doing but simple historical statistics will reveal the reality of what was before and what was after. If you are right about the irrelativity of fear in this equasion then why would BP want to settle out of court? If you are BP why not just go to court and say I can not be responsible for people not spending their money in Santa Rosa Beach just because we spilled all that oil in the Gulf and take the odds that the jurors will agree. I am sure that BP would like to have a jurors like yourself who do not see the link between cause and effect. This settlement proves that they believe they would lose in court and it is cost effective to pay legitimate claims and even some illegitimate claims. I believe your bias is in those illegitimate claims and I agree with you. I know people who really lost nothing and came out of this with a new Harley Davidson, yacht or house. Some people do take advantage of the situation which is sad but unfortunately it is human behavior. However those people are a minority thank goodness. The majority of people in our world are good people who are able to avoid manipulation of right and wrong behavior. Listen, my complaints are not from enviousness of those that got money but for the future of our resources, in particular theh 30A corridor and the Choctawhatchee Bay where I find peace fishing or watching the waves and sunsets. I want to do my part to educate myself in voting for legislators that will help us protect our resources. If we have the resources all you have to do is build it and they will come (economy). Therefore we must protect these resources from the BP's of the world who have a proven track record of cutting corners for profits.
When any business cuts corners the consequence is poor quality generally speaking. Some people do not mind poor quality and they purchase according to price only. Sounds like you are not one of those people and are willing to try and find better quality.
New posts
I see the Deepwater/Horizon online claim center is now open. How can loss of rental income be judged when the year before was first year rental was available? Is loss of expected increase in income a valid claim? Do you real estate sales and rental personal expect a surge in claims, or do you think it was mostly covered in the BP claim period? Do most workers and businesses think they were treated fairly?
Historical data is the only sure method of determining claims. GCCF methodology primarily used the previous year for future projections which was not a very good year for most businesses. The methodology for the new claims center has not been approved. It will be November before the court will decide. Depending on that methodology will there be more claims or less. I am absolutely certain that small businesses were not treated fairly but it remains to be seen if the new system will improve the fairness. In my opinion the so called settlement was for the lawyers and not the businesses affected. The steering committee was primarily interested in cutting the deal to insure a quicker payment for the lawyers with very minimum billed hours. Therefore the windfall goes to the lawyers and BP as their profits are already back to 37 million dollars per day mark. BP never even had to sweat this disaster. Therefore the saying "the bigger you are the harder you fall" has now become obsolete. Large corporations have minimized their exposure in the "too big to fail" reality of our current financial system.
mputnal my memory is vague but weren,t you the one complaining about bp back in 2010 constantly?i personally think finacially bp was very generous to all people. yes i and many people lost money in 2010 due to the oil scare. but we had little actual real damage and most of it was mental. 2011 was a banner record yr for tourism and this yr is even better.you can complain that they killed the environment this and that and should pay forever if you want but you can't say a word that they didn't compensate most people for there loses as many people only had 2010 as loses. tons of people lost no money as they stayed fully employed yet many $8 an hr workers got 17k over the 2 yrs or as much as they make in there job.they paid almost anyone who filed a claim and many weren't legit. It was a bad time and bp did as well as they could
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mputnal my memory is vague but weren,t you the one complaining about bp back in 2010 constantly?i personally think finacially bp was very generous to all people. yes i and many people lost money in 2010 due to the oil scare. but we had little actual real damage and most of it was mental. 2011 was a banner record yr for tourism and this yr is even better.you can complain that they killed the environment this and that and should pay forever if you want but you can't say a word that they didn't compensate most people for there loses as many people only had 2010 as loses. tons of people lost no money as they stayed fully employed yet many $8 an hr workers got 17k over the 2 yrs or as much as they make in there job.they paid almost anyone who filed a claim and many weren't legit. It was a bad time and bp did as well as they could
Ray, you are absolutely correct. I did "complain" back in 2010, 2011 and I am still complaining about BP. I will go out of my way to avoid purchasing a BP product. BP is a mega profit taker, a mega environmental disaster maker and has completed distorted the truth regarding the pollution and causes. I can say with absolute conviction that the pollution disaster affected my ability to generate income and the timing of the disaster created losses for me that I will never overcome regardless of how tourism comes back. Every business situation is different and I know that you understand that. I agree with you that a few hourly workers benefitted more than they were harmed. I disagree with you in that BP did as well as they could in preventing the disaster and compensating businesses that had legitimate losses.
I believe that you may have missed much of my motivation for complaining. Maybe you believe that most businesses including mine are just trying to get something for nothing. If that is the case I adamantly disagree with you. I hope that you would agree with me that for every mistake or choice we make whether it personal or business related has consequences. The only consequence for any large corporation is numbers (profit) because that is the way they operate. They do not have a conscience and operating the corporation just becomes a matter of manipulating profits. Therefore the only consequence that matters is whatever affects their profits. Again, I believe that you will agree that if there were no consequences for our behavior then this would be a very mean, ruthless and chaotic society. The only way for society to prevent this behavior is to impose consequences. In this case the money that BP spent was a drop in the bucket. This was a serious environmental and human tragedy. It would have been prevented if the company had better leadership (ceo's and managers). Everything starts at the top and trickles down. People died. Plants died. Marine life died. Entire ecosystems will be affected for years if not decades. If you or I had caused an accident and someone dies from it there could be criminal charges brought against us. I hope you see that our entire political, judicial and economic systems fail us when there is so much money at stake that we can not hold people accountable. Our government allowed BP to determine the methodology to calculate loses, advertise complete fabrications and charge more at the gas pumps. As a small business person this is unacceptable on so many levels that it overwhelms me. Please try to see this from the perspective of another pollution disaster off our beaches and the consequences for all of us that live and work here. Keep the pressure on BP to change their ways or go out of business.
ok i see you're the putnal pinestraw. i've bought from you for years, Please explain to me how its affected your business past the initial yr of 2010? it seems your trucks are emply many times.it appears your business is good. tons of houses are rented all summer and i'm sure people have the money to buy it. also please explain what industries are affected at this moment by the oil spill still? fisherman are doing well. i'd assume they'd be themost effected of anyone. also you seem to want to punish bp financially almost a if you want them to go under
ok i see you're the putnal pinestraw. i've bought from you for years, Please explain to me how its affected your business past the initial yr of 2010? it seems your trucks are emply many times.it appears your business is good. tons of houses are rented all summer and i'm sure people have the money to buy it. also please explain what industries are affected at this moment by the oil spill still? fisherman are doing well. i'd assume they'd be themost effected of anyone. also you seem to want to punish bp financially almost a if you want them to go under
Thank you for your business. I apologize for the empty trailers. I gear up each year based on the previous three year trend in sales. I do not want to have too much inventory because it is an organic product and does not store well. The product is labor intensive and requires accurate projections in sales. The production requires trained labor that does not mind working in hot, dusty, mosquito infested working conditions.The empty trailers are due to the problem with projecting sales and weather conditions and not above normal sales. My sales are lower this year than the last two years because I failed to understand the market and not for any other reason. I have not complained about sales this year however the problems created by the oil spill economic disaster in 2010 created a loss of skilled and trained labor that I have not been able to replace. It is not as easy as you may think to replace this type of labor.
As a matter of fact before this year I was not sure sales would ever rebound to the 2007, 2008 and 2009 yearly sales. In addition our business invested in an expansion into an outdoor market with produce, food service and patio furniture that was to open on July 1st 2010. If you recall you would have notice a very expensive food trailer by our barn. Sales bottomed out beginning in May 2010 and did not recover until apparently this year if we had been able to project the market better. The food trailer required a particular type of business partner that could operate the food trailer and outdoor market sales. I lost this person that was an excellent chef. The lack of cash flow and the uncertainity of the oil spill effect completely destroyed our business plan and I lost these skilled people in both the outdoor market and pine straw production. I have already spent too much time explaining this but in effect I lost a lot of time, money, equipment and people. But for the oil spill I would not have has such loses. GCCF/BP's methodology in determining loss is a joke but what resources do a small business person have to fight a huge corporation? Lawyers are about $300.00 an hour and up.
Again, I believe that you are missing the basic premise of my complaints. I can overcome investment loses with hard work but what if this happens again? How do we know that it will not happen again? Regulation does not work for these multi-billion dollar corporations. Heck we do not even have the technology to go down a mile below the surface to make sure the well is not leaking for goodness sake. In my opinion the only way to insure this does not happen again is for the polluter and killer of life to face severe consequences. Please explain to me why you believe that BP cares about you and me and our paradise or the environment in general. Please explain to me what severe consequences has the company faced. They have mutiple environmental and human disasters on their record. How have they suffered and who in their organization has suffered? Many local businesses have suffered to various degrees including mine for absolutely nothing that we did or did not do. There are many researchers who believe that the effects of the oil spill continue and have put the Gulf ecosystem at a much higher risk for future problems. We should all be concerned about this uncertainity because we value our resources. I do not want this to ever happen again and therefore I will keep complaining probably until I die.
mputnal i understand your story. you,re saying that the oil spill caused your new buisness to fail basically and it caused people not to buy your pinestraw as there business was hurt. But in a court of law i can make one big case against this. There was no actuall damage to santa rosa beach period. The reason people cancelled there reservations and didn't come at all was plain FEAR. 2010 was my first yr renting and it destroyed the yr. I had 7 rentals by april 20th and bamm it hit. i didn't get one more rental that whole summer. i had only 1 cancel. still bp paid me for the whole summer.Now pensacola had big damage and couldn't rent. the tourists chose to stay away from walton county and could have come. yet bp paid almost every claim.in 2011 and this yr i rented every week of the summer. i think you and me are on the same page on some things. ok bp should be punished much more but that has nothing to do with you getting more money. bp can make the case they never directly affected your business as it wass indirectly affected by panic and fear and they can't control that. also your bsuiness is very cyclical. pine straw is not a needed thing. yes it looks great but i can do without if short on money. the economy affects you greatly. on another note why not have a fruit stand on your property near the rode? also on the honor system you have do many people not pay?
Okay, think about it as if the oil spill had never happened. There would be no fear of anything and my projections and investments and labor would only be affected by the cyclical nature of the market which I can account for. However when an event like an oil spill and the complete uncertainity of the market occurs nothing is known and previous years sales mean nothing. Businesses have no way of knowing what affects something like this would have on sales or how long it will last. BP is soley responsible for the fear and everything that happened economically after the spill. Neither you or I caused the oil spill! Economically, "but for the spill" all our operations are business as usual. The timing affected any business that was trying to "start up" possibly as in our case severely damaging cash flow which is very important. Your legal premise is that there was little oil on our beaches yet sales bottomed out for no reason other than the oil spill. In a court of law I would only have to prove that minus the oil spill there would be no "economic fear" from the uncertainity created by the spill. Maybe BP argues that hurricanes also creates an economic fear and I would answer that hurricanes are predicted and have happened since the beginning of time by natural forces but oil spills are manmade. If I were a lawyer I would love the opportunity to answer these questions that you present on BP's behalf to a jury. BP did control the drilling, had an opportunity to shut it down and chose not to. BP chose to use corexit to make the oil sink to the bottom creating even more uncertainity about the future affects of large amounts of oil on the ocean floor. I would argue that it is entirely possible for a major hurricane to disloge that oil only to find it's way to our beaches in the future. All creating an unstable economic and environmental situation.
Hard to make a fruit stand work without other sales. Yes people are very honest with occasional exceptions. We have good people in Walton County.
Hard to make a fruit stand work without other sales. Yes people are very honest with occasional exceptions. We have good people in Walton County.
Mputnal i really don't thing"economic fear" would stand up in court. How about 3 mile island disaster, I;m ure it destroyed all business for 100 miles for yrs. So can my convience strore 100 miles away sue when i had zero damage but fear kept the people away. then that means one could sue for any kind of fear. since bp is a rich company they basically agreed to pay anyclaim to shut the local up. i bet 30% of the claims they paid were bogus. ye bp cut corners and should pay. the question is how much is enough?are you just in walton county with straw?i recall i was here at beginning of may and you ahd no straw so i went to lowes. it was so dirty with sticks.do you have your own farms in soth ga or fla were you get the straw?
Mputnal i really don't thing"economic fear" would stand up in court. How about 3 mile island disaster, I;m ure it destroyed all business for 100 miles for yrs. So can my convience strore 100 miles away sue whe.n i had zero damage but fear kept the people away. then that means one could sue for any kind of fear. since bp is a rich company they basically agreed to pay anyclaim to shut the local up. i bet 30% of the claims they paid were bogus. ye bp cut corners and should pay. the question is how much is enough?are you just in walton county with straw?i recall i was here at beginning of may and you ahd no straw so i went to lowes. it was so dirty with sticks.do you have your own farms in soth ga or fla were you get the straw?
Yes, if your business cuts corners and causes pollution and loss of life there will be an associated fear from normal human behavior to avoid those areas affected. It is a cause an affect reasoning. The cause of the economic disaster was created by the choices that BP executives made in drilling. In a juror's mind you only have to establish the link between how the local economy was behaving before those corners were cut and then after. BP lawyers will try to complicate the reasoning just as you are doing but simple historical statistics will reveal the reality of what was before and what was after. If you are right about the irrelativity of fear in this equasion then why would BP want to settle out of court? If you are BP why not just go to court and say I can not be responsible for people not spending their money in Santa Rosa Beach just because we spilled all that oil in the Gulf and take the odds that the jurors will agree. I am sure that BP would like to have a jurors like yourself who do not see the link between cause and effect. This settlement proves that they believe they would lose in court and it is cost effective to pay legitimate claims and even some illegitimate claims. I believe your bias is in those illegitimate claims and I agree with you. I know people who really lost nothing and came out of this with a new Harley Davidson, yacht or house. Some people do take advantage of the situation which is sad but unfortunately it is human behavior. However those people are a minority thank goodness. The majority of people in our world are good people who are able to avoid manipulation of right and wrong behavior. Listen, my complaints are not from enviousness of those that got money but for the future of our resources, in particular theh 30A corridor and the Choctawhatchee Bay where I find peace fishing or watching the waves and sunsets. I want to do my part to educate myself in voting for legislators that will help us protect our resources. If we have the resources all you have to do is build it and they will come (economy). Therefore we must protect these resources from the BP's of the world who have a proven track record of cutting corners for profits.
When any business cuts corners the consequence is poor quality generally speaking. Some people do not mind poor quality and they purchase according to price only. Sounds like you are not one of those people and are willing to try and find better quality.