• Trouble logging in? Send us a message with your username and/or email address for help.

Obama closes ocean

New posts
beachsinger said:
It took the disagreement between both/all parties to close the government. They should ALL be ashamed.
Click to expand...

Not everything is equal, who voted for the shut down? Conservatives are shocked that shutting down the government has consequences.
 
Last edited:
beachsinger said:
It took the disagreement between both/all parties to close the government. They should ALL be ashamed.
Click to expand...
Your view in this specific shutdown, is flawed. The entire system is set up for continuous disagreement via the checks and balances. What we have here is an out of control 25 percent using political terrorism to bring everything to a grinding halt because they disagree with standing law. You cannot have effective government with no budget resolutions and negotiating via political hostage taking.
 
I think it's wrong to act as though the dems are somehow more to blame than the GOP in this instance. This is a clear cut and dry Republican shutdown, no ifs ands or buts. At least we learned one thing. The party that says they hate government starts whining and crying when they lose certain government services.
 
Bob said:
Baggers closed the government
Click to expand...

keep drinking the Kool-Aid

The Face of Tyranny

By Alan Caruba

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/58370

The history of civilization dating back some five millennia is one of unrelenting tyranny, rapaciousness, arrogance, and stupidity. The players and the places changed, but the slaughter was unremitting, the suffering broken only by occasional brief periods of peace, good weather and crops. For most of the past, war, famine, and disease killed most people.

During the famous soliloquy of Hamlet, he contemplates taking his own life, saying “There’s the respect that makes calamity of so long life—for who would bear the whips and scorns of time, the oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely, the pangs of despised love, the law’s delay, the insolence of office…”

This list of woes neatly sums up the times in which we live as Americans endure many of these same abuses from a President who seems to enjoy displaying his contempt for them. He has plunged the nation into the highest debt in its history, is using the government shutdown as a crisis to divert attention from recent failures, and is flirting with a national default that would create domestic and international havoc…all while blaming the Republicans, the real end game.

As an October 3rd Wall Street Journal editorial noted, however, “House GOP leaders also insist they don’t want a default, and they’ve already passed a bill to prevent it—not that the media have paid any attention. First sponsored in 2011 by California Republican Tom McClintock and Pennsylvania Senator Pat Toomey, the Full Faith and Credit Act is essentially an insurance policy against miscalculation. Their bill certifies that U.S. sovereign debt will always be repaid, on time and in full.”

It is beginning to dawn on a lot of people that Barack Obama is the face of tryanny, a man for whom the Constitution, the democratic process and its need for compromise, exist only to be spurned.

Any President who is happy to preside over closing the White House to public tours, who authorizes placing barricades around Washington War Memorial that is normally open 24 hours a day as well as the Normandy, France D-Day cemetery where our soldiers are buried, is more than merely heartless, but represents a level of evil intent never before seen in anyone who has held that office.

The closing of the Normandy cemetery reminded me that history records that resistance to such tyrants has given rise to the rights of those they governed. The brother of England’s Richard the Lionhearted, John, had inherited the throne and through his incompetence in 1203 had lost Normandy, the last remaining possession in Western France the English had conquered.

The ill will that his barons felt, in part from the constant taxation John imposed, led them to renounce their allegiance to the crown of England. In 1215 they assembled at Runnymede, a water meadow on the Thames and presented John with the Magna Carta that spelled out their rights and those of all Englishmen, protecting them and their property against arbitrary arrest and confiscation without due process of law.

King John was actually fortunate. History records that rulers who acted ruthlessly were often assassinated or beheaded. It was commonplace.

The history of the United States records that the colonists, British subjects, had enjoyed self-rule for easily a century before the British crown, George III, seeking to replenish the treasury in lieu of having fought the French and Indian War in 1763 on behalf of the colonies, imposed the Stamp Act in 1765. It evoked such resistance that it was repealed and replaced a year later with the Townshend Acts that imposed taxes on paper, paint, glass and tea imported from England. They were followed by more resistance and led to an altercation on March 5, 1770 that killed a number of citizens and became known as the Boston Massacre.

For a list of what Americans had come to regard as usurpations of power by the king, one need only read the Declaration of Independence.

By then, the governing of the British empire had spawned a bureaucracy that was not only large, but “appallingly inefficient” noted historian Nathaniel Philbrick in his book, “Bunker Hill: A City, A Siege, a Revolution.” After the Boston Tea Party, the king sent a flotilla to seal off Boston Harbor and increased the army in America. By then, George III was in no mood to negotiate.

President Obama has said he, too, does not intend to negotiate with the House of Representatives, constitutionally the body of government empowered to authorize all expenditures for the maintenance of the government.

The House has sent any number of proposed measures to keep the entire government funded, but has also expressed its wish to defund or delay the implementation of the Affordable Care Act which is widely unpopular. Against the protest of millions it was imposed solely by the Democratic Party when it controlled both houses of Congress.

Modern-day Americans have been enduring what many regard as acts of tyranny and have begun to regard the President as not merely incompetent, but bent on a course of action to destroy the nation. This is the stuff of revolution.
 
Stolen from a friend:
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We're gonna shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We'll fight to death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."...
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We're gonna elect a candidate who'll revoke healthcare NOW."
June 2012: "We'll go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "American people'll never re-elect you-they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you got re-elected & we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
 
ottomatik said:
keep drinking the Kool-Aid

The Face of Tyranny

By Alan Caruba

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/58370

The history of civilization dating back some five millennia is one of unrelenting tyranny, rapaciousness, arrogance, and stupidity. The players and the places changed, but the slaughter was unremitting, the suffering broken only by occasional brief periods of peace, good weather and crops. For most of the past, war, famine, and disease killed most people.

During the famous soliloquy of Hamlet, he contemplates taking his own life, saying “There’s the respect that makes calamity of so long life—for who would bear the whips and scorns of time, the oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely, the pangs of despised love, the law’s delay, the insolence of office…”

This list of woes neatly sums up the times in which we live as Americans endure many of these same abuses from a President who seems to enjoy displaying his contempt for them. He has plunged the nation into the highest debt in its history, is using the government shutdown as a crisis to divert attention from recent failures, and is flirting with a national default that would create domestic and international havoc…all while blaming the Republicans, the real end game.

As an October 3rd Wall Street Journal editorial noted, however, “House GOP leaders also insist they don’t want a default, and they’ve already passed a bill to prevent it—not that the media have paid any attention. First sponsored in 2011 by California Republican Tom McClintock and Pennsylvania Senator Pat Toomey, the Full Faith and Credit Act is essentially an insurance policy against miscalculation. Their bill certifies that U.S. sovereign debt will always be repaid, on time and in full.”

It is beginning to dawn on a lot of people that Barack Obama is the face of tryanny, a man for whom the Constitution, the democratic process and its need for compromise, exist only to be spurned.

Any President who is happy to preside over closing the White House to public tours, who authorizes placing barricades around Washington War Memorial that is normally open 24 hours a day as well as the Normandy, France D-Day cemetery where our soldiers are buried, is more than merely heartless, but represents a level of evil intent never before seen in anyone who has held that office.

The closing of the Normandy cemetery reminded me that history records that resistance to such tyrants has given rise to the rights of those they governed. The brother of England’s Richard the Lionhearted, John, had inherited the throne and through his incompetence in 1203 had lost Normandy, the last remaining possession in Western France the English had conquered.

The ill will that his barons felt, in part from the constant taxation John imposed, led them to renounce their allegiance to the crown of England. In 1215 they assembled at Runnymede, a water meadow on the Thames and presented John with the Magna Carta that spelled out their rights and those of all Englishmen, protecting them and their property against arbitrary arrest and confiscation without due process of law.

King John was actually fortunate. History records that rulers who acted ruthlessly were often assassinated or beheaded. It was commonplace.

The history of the United States records that the colonists, British subjects, had enjoyed self-rule for easily a century before the British crown, George III, seeking to replenish the treasury in lieu of having fought the French and Indian War in 1763 on behalf of the colonies, imposed the Stamp Act in 1765. It evoked such resistance that it was repealed and replaced a year later with the Townshend Acts that imposed taxes on paper, paint, glass and tea imported from England. They were followed by more resistance and led to an altercation on March 5, 1770 that killed a number of citizens and became known as the Boston Massacre.

For a list of what Americans had come to regard as usurpations of power by the king, one need only read the Declaration of Independence.

By then, the governing of the British empire had spawned a bureaucracy that was not only large, but “appallingly inefficient” noted historian Nathaniel Philbrick in his book, “Bunker Hill: A City, A Siege, a Revolution.” After the Boston Tea Party, the king sent a flotilla to seal off Boston Harbor and increased the army in America. By then, George III was in no mood to negotiate.

President Obama has said he, too, does not intend to negotiate with the House of Representatives, constitutionally the body of government empowered to authorize all expenditures for the maintenance of the government.

The House has sent any number of proposed measures to keep the entire government funded, but has also expressed its wish to defund or delay the implementation of the Affordable Care Act which is widely unpopular. Against the protest of millions it was imposed solely by the Democratic Party when it controlled both houses of Congress.

Modern-day Americans have been enduring what many regard as acts of tyranny and have begun to regard the President as not merely incompetent, but bent on a course of action to destroy the nation. This is the stuff of revolution.
Click to expand...

Nice long winded post that is short on facts. Many war memorials are open 24hrs. a day but they are required to be maintained. States do the same thing. No staff, no maintenance, no memorial. See how simple that is when logic is applied. No conspiracy so no need to be paranoid. Just ask yourself, which party could have passed a clean CR but voted for a shutdown instead?

The federal government of the United States operates on a budget calendar that runs from October 1 through September 30. Each year, the Congress authorizes each department, agency, or program to spend a specific amount of money. This money may not be spent, however, until it has been appropriated for a given purpose.
Under the Constitution, only Congress may appropriate money for the operation of the federal government. Therefore, Congress is required to pass separate spending bills every year to fund the operation of government. If no such bill becomes law, government functions cease immediately and all functions of the government cease eventually, as required by the Antideficiency Act, except as excepted by the Act.

Read that paragraph again so you understand why you are confused. It says under the Constitution only Congress may appropriate money for the operation of the federal government, it doesn't say "the President", and Congress is required to pass separate spending bills every year to fund the operation of government. Guess what, Congress didn't do their job. President Obama signed the Budget Control Act of 2011 as part of an agreement with Congress to resolve the debt-ceiling crisis. Remember, with today's Republicans everything is a crisis. The Act provided for a Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction (the "super committee") to produce legislation by late November that would decrease the deficit by $1.2 trillion over ten years. When the super committee failed to act we got the sequestration. Once again, the BCA of 2011 was an agreement with congress. At this point we can blame both parties for the clusterf**k.

In order to prevent the interruption of government services, Congress and the President will often pass a continuing resolution. This authorizes government agencies to fund their agencies at the current level until either the resolution expires, or an appropriations bill is passed. Like all acts of Congress, a continuing resolution must be passed by both houses of Congress and the President, or passed with a majority large enough to override a Presidential veto. The suggestion that Democrats aren’t willing to negotiate ignores that they’ve already given Republicans a major win. The continuing resolution that the White House and congressional Democrats have agreed to funds the government at sequestration levels. Progressives complained bitterly that funding the government at $988 billion would set a bad precedent for future negotiations. Administration officials acknowledge that it would hurt the president’s priorities. Since John Boehner agreed with this basic deal they and the Democratic party's congressional leadership made the case that a continuing resolution at that level would be tolerable provided it lasted for a short period of time and allowed for more substantial budget negotiations. In simple language, they negotiated.

Now John Boehner, who is controlled by the Teaparty, is trying to tie defunding of the ACA to the CR, the debt limit, the weather report, the sunrise, a frogs ass, or whatever he can tie it to. The ACA or, Obamacare, is law. I will repeat that, Obamacare is law. The Affordable Care Act has been the law of the land for four years. I know Republicans don't want to believe it but this is a law that passed both houses of Congress, a law that bears the Presidents signature, a law that a Conservative Supreme Court upheld as constitutional, and it is a law that was the center piece of the President's re-election. The house has voted forty four times to repeal the ACA without success. If they expect the President to negotiate on his signature legislation they are fricken morons. Well of course they are morons, they're the Teaparty. If Republicans want the law changed they should cease the extortion of America and do it the right way. With all the red state voter suppression laws the Republicans should have no problem slipping into both houses and the Oval Office.

Ask yourself again, which party voted to shut down the government and which party is advocating revolution because they can't get their way through the democratic process?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
New posts


Sign Up for SoWal Newsletter









Share this page




                               
Back
Top