13,000 protest Governor's plan to change collective bargaining for public employees

[scooterbug44]

Schools are closed because 40% of the teachers called in sick, the Governor is threatening to call out the National Guard, protesters spent the night sleeping in the Capitol building, the Super Bowl Champs are taking sides, and the police have shut down the streets around the governor's house (in a different city) due to hundreds of protesters.

This is going to be interesting to watch - mass civil disobedience, plus the parallels between this governor and Florida's Scott are interesting. (He turned down high speed rail money, is offering tax breaks to get businesses to relocate, wants to sell off state assets, appointed someone in construction to streamline the DNR, isn't taking a salary etc.)

Thousands descend on Wis. Capitol in protest - Politics - More politics - msnbc.com

MADISON, Wis. ? Thousands of people descended on the Wisconsin state Capitol for a second day of powerful protests Wednesday as key votes approached on Republican Gov. Scott Walker's plan to strip away the collective bargaining rights of public employees.

While other states have proposed bills curtailing labor rights, Wisconsin's measure is the boldest step by a new Republican governor and Legislature to solve budget problems by confronting organized labor. It would end collective bargaining, except over wages less than the Consumer Price Index, for all state, county and local workers except for police, firefighters and the state patrol.

Walker's plan would make workers pay half the costs of their pensions and at least 12.6 percent of their health care premiums. State employees' costs would go up by an average of 8 percent. The changes would save the state $30 million by June 30 and $300 million over the next two years to address a $3.6 billion budget shortfall. Unions could still represent workers, but could not seek pay increases above the Consumer Price Index unless approved by a public referendum. Unions also could not force employees to pay dues and would have to hold annual votes to stay organized. Local police, firefighters and state troopers would retain their collective bargaining rights.

 

[30ashopper]

"me me me"

 

[cabythesea]

Which state will be the next California?

 

[scooterbug44]

Yep - it was either make these changes or have up to 6,000 get laid off or furloughed.

The teacher's union* does not have a lot of popular support - the "me, me, me" attitude isn't new.

*actual teachers yes, teacher's union - no

 

[Bob Wells]

You all do a pretty good job at bashing Unions here. You think its a me attitude. What I see is an attitude of me from those who want to take from the worker what has been negotiated. These same folks you are attacking still pay taxes, still buy groceries that continue to increase in cost, have to pay mortgages/rent, have to pay for the gas to get to that job. I choose to be a UNION member. I will vote to stay Union and continue to pay my dues. You all think the whole problem is the Unions, you might look at those who were elected, both republican and democrats. These wages and benefits were not negotiated blindly, they have the same info and in many cases have more assistance in crafting their proposals. The reason for Unions have not changes, Better Pay, Better Benefits and Better Working Conditions. Not one person out there who complains about what others make would turn down a dividend payment, or a SS increase or a pay raise that your boss may have decided to give you even if it meant an increase in the cost of the product or service, well I won't either. The difference is I negotiate as a group, in good faith and the politics of whether I am liked or disliked does not play into it. Then you all say, well what about the bad employees, we have an obligation to represent them as well as the good employee. If management has their ducks in a row they terminate bad employees, if they don't that employee stays. They have their job to do we have ours.

 

[scooterbug44]

It typically takes the state and the teacher's union 15 months to agree on a contract and during that time, the teacher's union uses various methods that are unpopular with the everyday citizen to try and get its way.

Collective bargaining for state employees is something the state legislature has been explicitly given the power to grant or take away. The unions' collective bargaining contracts are expired, so he gave them the required 30 days notice that they will not be continued further.

The governor is facing a budget crisis and it seems like he got fed up with the lack of cooperation and so has decided to play hardball.

I don't like him, but he IS making the kind of changes and hard choices that are going to be necessary in many places to get budgets under control.

The choice was that the unions would make some concessions or thousands of people would get furloughed or lose their jobs.

And those "concessions" are things most of their friends and neighbors are already doing because of the economy.

In this scenario, the average teacher makes $52K and doesn't pay anything to either their pension or their health insurance. The governor wants them to contribute 5.8% to their pension and pay 12.6% of their insurance premium - which he says is still half the national average.

 

[Bob Wells]

Based on this site the average teacher pay is not that high but the average starting teacher pay is around 26000 annually, that means a new teacher would pay approx 1500 towards their retirement and to pay 12.6 on thier insurance which based on 500 a month will cost this teacher a 750 a year. Now lets say that they have a certain requirement to set up their classrooms and that money comes from their pocketlets assume 500 a year it may be more but I am just assuming. That teacher will end up paying 2750 a year. That brings there base pay 2350 and thats before they take out state tax, federal tax and such. I don't know about you but how does that look now. Wisconsin Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in WI: $46,390
To be fair, I know nothing about this site I just googled it.

It typically takes the state and the teacher's union 15 months to agree on a contract and during that time, the teacher's union uses various methods that are unpopular with the everyday citizen to try and get its way.

Collective bargaining for state employees is something the state legislature has been explicitly given the power to grant or take away. The unions' collective bargaining contracts are expired, so he gave them the required 30 days notice that they will not be continued further.

The governor is facing a budget crisis and it seems like he got fed up with the lack of cooperation and so has decided to play hardball.

I don't like him, but he IS making the kind of changes and hard choices that are going to be necessary in many places to get budgets under control.

The choice was that the unions would make some concessions or thousands of people would get furloughed or lose their jobs.

And those "concessions" are things most of their friends and neighbors are already doing because of the economy.

In this scenario, the average teacher makes $52K and doesn't pay anything to either their pension or their health insurance. The governor wants them to contribute 5.8% to their pension and pay 12.6% of their insurance premium - which he says is still half the national average.

 

[scooterbug44]

I got those numbers from an article linked to the others, which I can't find right now because everyone is now writing about it. :roll:

This is a similar article from the same source saying the average salary was $51K in 2010 and that their benefits are some of the best in the nation.

Teachers say Walker's cuts would hurt education

Please note I am not saying teachers don't deserve good pay, just that this is a major budget issue - they've been getting raises every year and fantastic benefits and there just isn't money to keep that up.

He also tried to get performance pay for teachers included and the union wouldn't go for it.

And one of the biggest items in the budget proposal is restructuring the state's debt.

 

[30ashopper]

From that article is sounds as though the Wisconsin legislature has been kissing the back side of organized labor for a long long time. Apparently now the citizens of the state are fed up so they put some people in charge who could work to normalize the situation.

 

[cabythesea]

The auto workers union has a different point of view now, I think. I have worked with the Steelworkers since the '70's - boy, times have changed. And probably will continue to!