13,000 protest Governor's plan to change collective bargaining for public employees

[Bob Wells]

Average salary is not the same as starting salary. Average salary takes into all salaries including those at the very top, you have to wonder about the effect to those on the lower end. Hopefully food stamps will be available to them, but because they have a government job some will oppose them getting that assistance. When I looked at the pay increases I think it was less than 3 percent so I suppose those are huge numbers when your looking at 23000 a year. Now they will make less to feed their family, pay monthly expenses ect. Alot of talk about performance pay, I have yet to find anything that would not be subjective. Even 30a has yet to come up with a palatable solution IMO.

I got those numbers from an article linked to the others, which I can't find right now because everyone is now writing about it. :roll:

This is a similar article from the same source saying the average salary was $51K in 2010 and that their benefits are some of the best in the nation.

Teachers say Walker's cuts would hurt education

Please note I am not saying teachers don't deserve good pay, just that this is a major budget issue - they've been getting raises every year and fantastic benefits and there just isn't money to keep that up.

He also tried to get performance pay for teachers included and the union wouldn't go for it.

And one of the biggest items in the budget proposal is restructuring the state's debt.

 

[30ashopper]

Average salary is not the same as starting salary. Average salary takes into all salaries including those at the very top, you have to wonder about the effect to those on the lower end. Hopefully food stamps will be available to them, but because they have a government job some will oppose them getting that assistance. When I looked at the pay increases I think it was less than 3 percent so I suppose those are huge numbers when your looking at 23000 a year. Now they will make less to feed their family, pay monthly expenses ect. Alot of talk about performance pay, I have yet to find anything that would not be subjective. Even 30a has yet to come up with a palatable solution IMO.

What will their annual income be from the state pension after they retire at 55? How much will they earn through state funded medical coverage? When I calculate my income, I include what my company pays into my 401K. Have you accounted for that kind of income in your calculations?

 

[30ashopper]

This is why state funded retirement pensions and retirement health benefits should be abolished. Pay people, up front, what their services are worth.

 

[seagroovys]

Organized labor gave us the middle class, It is not without its faults, but when I am in a Unionized state, and I hire a non-union worker. That non=union worker is payed about 2/3 rds of what a union member is paid. So if a Union worker is payed 45.00 per hour, a now-union worker is paid around 30.00. It seems in Florida, a great wage is 15.00 to 20.00 per hour. How can these folks raise a family on that. They can't. It is a great state to be an owner, and not a worker. And it is proud of that. So be it. But it has a very small middle class. If I own a business here I have a large labor pool of people conditioned to be poor. Is this what America is about. This High Speed Rail , would have been a boom for the economy and for the folks that would have built the system. Why was it turned down? Ask who had the bonds on the Toll Roads, find out what the competition is against the Rail, or who benefits financially. It is not about a morally bound Governor who is protecting the tax payer. Some time people have to pay the price for the decisions they make. And the decision to hire a Governor who by reputation always put the people first is not what they got. They hired a guy who is going to make it easier to put it to the little guy and be good for business. Hurray for the Rich......But they don't make it easier for the guy trying to raise a family.

 

[30ashopper]

The historical illiteracy of Wisconsin teachers ? Hot Air

Our "new era of civility" continues to unravel.

 

[Andy A]

This is why state funded retirement pensions and retirement health benefits should be abolished. Pay people, up front, what their services are worth.

You forget a couple of things (censored) would like to mention. At one time, public employees wages were much less than those of private sector employees. Therefore, retirement and health benefits, much like the military, were "deferred compensation" to be collected at a later date. Now, to the other point (censored) would like to make. Some people you pay up front, will at the end, expect to by paid there, too. Why? They either don't have the werewithall to save for their retirement or figure its really not necessary to start now and all at once its too late.
Some worked for a state that had retirement and did not have a union. (censored) did. So did (censored) wife. Neither of us were exactly overpaid for our efforts. You do not need a union to have decent benefits. They served their purpose in the '30's but those days are now gone and real benefactors of unions are those at the top who do the negotiatling and make salaries that are probably equivalent to those of many CEO's. One more thing. Unions have priced the American worker out of the labor market in many areas and places. In (censored) home town, they single handedly closed the steel mill and put thousands out of work. BTW, how much steel is produced in Pittsburg today? Am (censored) anti-union. You betcha. (censored) can see what they have done to American industry over the last 50 years, and while they are not solely to blame, they are a great part of our present mess.

 

[scooterbug44]

I think that in 2010 many of the functions unions originally served are obsolete because other agencies and protections are now commonplace.

OMG! Canoehead just sent me this update. The Democrats are running for the border - the state border that is, because if none of them are present, they cannot have the vote.

The governor has sent state troopers after them - if just 1 Democrat is present, the vote can go forward (the Repubs have complete control and can pass it without them).

Wisconsin Protests: State Police Pursue Democratic Lawmakers Boycotting Vote

 

[Andy A]

Yep, Wisconsin's elected government at its finest.

 

[scooterbug44]

They estimate 25,000 protested today. (20,000 were outside, with temps in the upper 40's and low 50s).

Democrats have fled the state and are refusing to disclose their locations.

State law is fuzzy on the details of how they can be "compelled to return."

 

[30ashopper]

What seems kind of sad is that the teacher sick out (basically an illegal strike) closed a number of schools. Kids are sitting at home idle while these folks parade around the capital.

In the end, I doubt reps will fold, there's too much at stake now.