Arizona congresswoman among 18 shot at Tuscon grocery

[30ashopper]

Here's a book suggestion for you:
Crazy: A Father's Search Through America's Mental Health Madness by Pete Earley.

Even if he had insurance; even if parents had done an outstanding job of intervention (they are limited because he is an adult); even if all had tried very hard, there still might not have been a good intervention with the system set up the way it is..that certainly doesn't mean everyone should not have tried, but it also doesn't mean that we should not improve the system of both the health care system and the gun law system IMO.

Yeah, attacking it from all angles, makes sense. I can see myself arguing the other side as well - had the college or police tried to force him into some sort of treatment program prior to any of this happening, it would look more like a violation of his individual rights. But I can't help thinking more could have been done. That video he shot that got him expelled from school was alarming. I can't fathom how anyone could view that and not realize this kid was dangerous.

 

[GoodWitch58]

Yeah, attacking it from all angles, makes sense. I can see myself arguing the other side as well - had the college or police tried to force him into some sort of treatment program prior to any of this happening, it would look more like a violation of his individual rights. But I can't help thinking more could have been done. That video he shot that got him expelled from school was alarming. I can't fathom how anyone could view that and not realize this kid was dangerous.

I am sure that anyone who saw it; or anyone who sat in class with him felt he at least had the potential for being dangerous...but, there is a huge difference in that and actually doing anything about it...our systems are not set up (in most cases) for prevention.

Our entire health care system has historically been designed to deal with disease...whether it is physical or mental and especially in the mental health side, there is very little support for intervention before something horrible happens. Even when that happens our jails and prison systems are usually the "treatment of choice" rather than any sort of rehabilitation.And, more often than not, by the time the horrific happens, it usually is a crime and the law enforcement system rightly comes into play.

The college did what they had the authority to do--they reported it; they expelled him; they apparently took internal safety measures to protect themselves.

Who knows what agony the parents may have gone through with this young man, their child, whom they love no matter what. The only report I've seen is that they are devastated; they have apologized; they are at a loss to explain; and the father apparently tried to stop him by chasing him after an argument.

I am left wondering what support the family got from the community systems that are in place in their area.

I believe our health care system -- especially the mental health care portion -- needs a lot of work. That will take a huge undertaking and will mean a sea change in our pharma, medical, and insurance arenas...it will take time but we must begin.

I also believe there is absolutely no reason to have the assault weapons except to kill people quickly; that is something we could change very quickly with one yes vote by Congress to Congresswoman McCarthy's bill.http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-b...-high-capacity-magazines-rep-carolyn-mccarthy

Both are what a civil, mature society would do IMO.

 

[30ashopper]

Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mixed results, and missed opportunities to renew it.

 

[30ashopper]

As he alienated himself from his small clutch of friends, grew contemptuous of women in positions of power and became increasingly oblivious to basic social mores, Mr. Loughner seemed to develop a dreamy alternate world, where the sky was sometimes orange, the grass sometimes blue and the Internet?s informational chaos provided refuge.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/us/16loughner.html

Interesting NYT article. This is the first mention I've seen of his dislike of "women in power". Which I guess might explain why a woman congressman would be a target.

 

[Rita]

I'm more interested in understanding how a guy like Loughner managed to avoid being picked out and dealt with. The data on his interaction with people over the last few years indicates there was ample evidence he was imbalanced and numerous opportunities to intercede and ultimately avoid what happened. It seems pretty much everyone given the chance chose to turn the other cheek. How do we avoid such things in the future? This could have been avoided, IMHO.

I'm not sure how the health care law would have played into this. I don't know if he had insurance, might be interesting to dig that info up.

I was wondering more about all the events that led up to his rampage. Had Jared's parents, or the educators at Pima Community College, or the local police been more proactive he may have gotten the help he needed. That type of involvement, not smaller gun clips, is a real solution.

.
I just watched "This Week with Christiane Amanpour" in which they addressed most of your questions:
A sheriff's representative defending their actions as following the laws that are in place in Arizona; the pink-haired college student who had a poetry class with Loughner explaining how his poems and actions, though weird and unsettling, were not violent and sort of hinting that he should be checked out if "weird" was enough of a trigger; a congress woman from FL talking about how the new health care bill would include coverage for mental illness .... I didn't catch the whole show but it was all-encompassing and helped put more perspective on the situation.
Basically, it seems that when you see all the pieces together it becomes an easier "diagnosis" than for the individual parties with just their own piece of the puzzle.

I'm trying to see if the full show is on internet yet. Here are some individual clips:
After the Tragedy: Final Thoughts - ABC News


.

 

[Jesus]

It's becoming apparent that Mr. Loughner's world view contained elements of Libertarianism, not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Andy A]

Glenda, you are absolutely right on this point. There is no valid or compelling reason for assault type weapons to be in the hands of the general populace.

 

[scooterbug44]

I got an earful from Mama Scooterbug after Virginia Tech, because even when there are many signs that people WANT to address/act on, and even IF the person gets some kind of help, they can't or aren't allowed to release any information to others - even law enforcement.

The fact that this kid wasn't allowed back in class and that they were poised to act as soon as he did anything actionable is a MAJOR step for a college to have taken. They are hamstrung by threats of lawsuits and rules - and many mental health professionals are as frustrated by it as we are.

 

[GoodWitch58]

I got an earful from Mama Scooterbug after Virginia Tech, because even when there are many signs that people WANT to address/act on, and even IF the person gets some kind of help, they can't or aren't allowed to release any information to others - even law enforcement.

The fact that this kid wasn't allowed back in class and that they were poised to act as soon as he did anything actionable is a MAJOR step for a college to have taken. They are hamstrung by threats of lawsuits and rules - and many mental health professionals are as frustrated by it as we are.

Along these lines, Charlie Rose had an excellent show discussing the "risk factors" Charlie Rose - Roger Depue. I am hoping that some policies about privacy will be reconsidered along with some prevention measures...we have a situation where I work that has been upsetting to several people; in view of the Tucson shooting, it has become more of an issue...but, under the present rules and policies, not much can be done.

 

[30ashopper]

An old policy memo from the Clinton administration paved the way for accused Arizona gunman Jared Loughner to buy his first firearm.

Put in place by former attorney general Janet Reno, the policy prohibited the military from reporting certain drug abusers to the FBI, which manages the national list of prohibited gun-buyers, federal officials said.

Loughner attempted to enlist in the Army in December 2008 but was rejected because he failed a drug-screening process, Army officials said. Within a year, Loughner bought a Harrington & Richardson shotgun from Sportsman's Warehouse in Tucson.

In November, he went back to the same store and purchased a Glock 19 - the one he is accused of using in the Jan. 8 rampage that killed six and wounded 13 including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D).

Federal law since 1968 has prohibited gun sales to anyone who is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance. Licensed dealers have been required to check the backgrounds of gun-buyers since 1994. But the Reno policy told federal agencies not to report people who had voluntarily given drug tests for fear it would deter them from seeking addiction treatment, federal officials said.

Reno-era policy kept Jared Loughner off FBI gun list

Unintended consequences of a Clinton era disclosure policy.