Ashcroft's ash is in a sling

[Winnie]

Seriously! I don't think people realize just what it allows the government to do.

And there's nary a peep from all the supposedly non-partisan tea party folk about such a frighteningly powerful piece of legislation!!!

Guess they're too busy stockpiling ammo.

Which parts concern you? This seems like the perfect time to remedy those sections that are too objectionable.

I had really forgotten all about the USA Patriot Act. The FBI doesn't really scare me. I don't feel important enough to suffer their attentions.

 

[scooterbug44]

What is there to like about it?

Well, I've always been fond of the 1st, 4th, and 5th amendments.

I think they should need a warrant or some proof/belief I am doing something illegal before they can tap my phones, search my home or business, remove things from my home or business, and NOT have to tell me about it - EVER!

I think that keeping someone in jail indefinitely w/o a trial just because they aren't a US citizen goes against everything our Founding Fathers stood for.

I think that the books I check out of the public library and the websites I visit are none of their business.

I think that my financial records, medical records, purchases, and other personal information are none of their business, but especially not when THEY HAVE NO SUSPICION I HAVE DONE ANYTHING WRONG.

I think that they should not be able to secretly investigate me for a criticism of government policy I post on Sowal or write in a letter to the editor.

I think that if they do investigate me, anyone involved in the investigation should not face imprisonment for telling me about it...........even when there is no need for secrecy.

I think that there needs to be SOME checks and balances to protect our civil liberties ....................... especially since the act doesn't limit these searches to terrorism, but to all criminal law breaking (it also greatly expanded the definition of domestic terrorism).

I think that there need to be set time frames for disclosure and review, not just vague statements.

Many Americans are okay with the Patriot Act because they don't know just what it allows the government to do, or think it will never affect them - because they are law abiding Americans. You may think you are not important enough to suffer the attentions of the FBI, but considering just how many people they have investigated or gotten records on, I wouldn't bet the farm. And speaking of "the farm" it also lets the CIA spy on us.

Seriously, I bet I have been investigated just on the basis of my reading lists, Google searches, and Sowal posts (and if I haven't previously I bet this post will change that) ....................... and I am an uber law abiding natural born citizen who hates terrorists.

 

[fisher]

come out of your fallout shelters warhawkers, the threat level today is on the down low

Now I wonder why that is Bob???

Do you think it's because of what the Big O has done over the last 8 months. Don't think so. Maybe, huh, it's becasue of what the Bush admin did over the previous 8 years (ie: invading Afghanistan and Iraq, "torture", the Patriot act, etc.).

Stop speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[Winnie]

Well, I've always been fond of the 1st, 4th, and 5th amendments.

I think they should need a warrant or some proof/belief I am doing something illegal before they can tap my phones, search my home or business, remove things from my home or business, and NOT have to tell me about it - EVER!

I think that keeping someone in jail indefinitely w/o a trial just because they aren't a US citizen goes against everything our Founding Fathers stood for.

I think that the books I check out of the public library and the websites I visit are none of their business.

I think that my financial records, medical records, purchases, and other personal information are none of their business, but especially not when THEY HAVE NO SUSPICION I HAVE DONE ANYTHING WRONG.

I think that they should not be able to secretly investigate me for a criticism of government policy I post on Sowal or write in a letter to the editor.

I think that if they do investigate me, anyone involved in the investigation should not face imprisonment for telling me about it...........even when there is no need for secrecy.

I think that there needs to be SOME checks and balances to protect our civil liberties ....................... especially since the act doesn't limit these searches to terrorism, but to all criminal law breaking (it also greatly expanded the definition of domestic terrorism).

I think that there need to be set time frames for disclosure and review, not just vague statements.

Many Americans are okay with the Patriot Act because they don't know just what it allows the government to do, or think it will never affect them - because they are law abiding Americans. You may think you are not important enough to suffer the attentions of the FBI, but considering just how many people they have investigated or gotten records on, I wouldn't bet the farm. And speaking of "the farm" it also lets the CIA spy on us.

Seriously, I bet I have been investigated just on the basis of my reading lists, Google searches, and Sowal posts (and if I haven't previously I bet this post will change that) ....................... and I am an uber law abiding natural born citizen who hates terrorists.

I agree with more oversight.

Even when secrecy is required, I believe there should be a time limit on it.

I also think investigations toward preventing terrorism deserve more leeway than ordinary criminal investigations.

Detention without charges should have a limit - maybe 2 years or so.

I don't think people in our country illegally should be afforded the same considerations that legal guests or citizens are.

If it's necessary to collect data like which books we check out, we should be made aware ahead of time. And told what will become of the information. This applies to when you enter a sweepstakes contest too. I hate when I start getting hundreds of advertisements in the mail with some information that I can identify they gleaned from my entry and sold. Like transposing letters in my name or other small discrepancies like that.

Don't I remember you not having a problem with the White House collecting e-mail with addresses that were solicited from one group of citizens without the original senders knowledge? Similar breech of rights in my opinion. ;-) I believe that has already been stopped in any case.

 

[idlewind]

Well, I've always been fond of the 1st, 4th, and 5th amendments.

I think they should need a warrant or some proof/belief I am doing something illegal before they can tap my phones, search my home or business, remove things from my home or business, and NOT have to tell me about it - EVER!

I think that keeping someone in jail indefinitely w/o a trial just because they aren't a US citizen goes against everything our Founding Fathers stood for.

I think that the books I check out of the public library and the websites I visit are none of their business.

I think that my financial records, medical records, purchases, and other personal information are none of their business, but especially not when THEY HAVE NO SUSPICION I HAVE DONE ANYTHING WRONG.

I think that they should not be able to secretly investigate me for a criticism of government policy I post on Sowal or write in a letter to the editor.

I think that if they do investigate me, anyone involved in the investigation should not face imprisonment for telling me about it...........even when there is no need for secrecy.

I think that there needs to be SOME checks and balances to protect our civil liberties ....................... especially since the act doesn't limit these searches to terrorism, but to all criminal law breaking (it also greatly expanded the definition of domestic terrorism).

I think that there need to be set time frames for disclosure and review, not just vague statements.

Many Americans are okay with the Patriot Act because they don't know just what it allows the government to do, or think it will never affect them - because they are law abiding Americans. You may think you are not important enough to suffer the attentions of the FBI, but considering just how many people they have investigated or gotten records on, I wouldn't bet the farm. And speaking of "the farm" it also lets the CIA spy on us.

Seriously, I bet I have been investigated just on the basis of my reading lists, Google searches, and Sowal posts (and if I haven't previously I bet this post will change that) ....................... and I am an uber law abiding natural born citizen who hates terrorists.

The Patriot Act is a truly scary piece of legislation. What happens is that well-intentioned people pass stuff like this and do not account for what can be done with these tools in the wrong hands. If people are scared of Obama giving a speech to school kids, they should be terified of the Patriot Act in his hands.:shock:

 

[scooterbug44]

Don't I remember you not having a problem with the White House collecting e-mail with addresses that were solicited from one group of citizens without the original senders knowledge? Similar breech of rights in my opinion. ;-) I believe that has already been stopped in any case.

The White House very publicly stating that there is a great deal of misinformation out there regarding a certain topic and asking people to voluntarily send them spam misinformation/sites so they can then publicly refute it is VERY different from the FBI searching my home w/o a warrant and not telling me about it................or arresting my librarian for refusing to release the list of all the books that I (Jane Q. Lawabider) have checked out.

And as you pointed out, there was such an outrage about that mild topic that it was stopped.

 

[steyou]

YouTube - Scary!! - John Ashcroft sings "Let the Mighty Eagle Sore"

Oh God. OMG. National Public Radio's Twin.

 

[Winnie]

The White House very publicly stating that there is a great deal of misinformation out there regarding a certain topic and asking people to voluntarily send them spam misinformation/sites so they can then publicly refute it is VERY different from the FBI searching my home w/o a warrant and not telling me about it................or arresting my librarian for refusing to release the list of all the books that I (Jane Q. Lawabider) have checked out.

And as you pointed out, there was such an outrage about that mild topic that it was stopped.

The White House requesting that citizens forward e-mails received from relatives, acquaintances, or others without the senders consent that contain information contrary to the stated party rhetoric so they can ?correct? the problem, is VERY similar.

I'm glad they stopped. Now, maybe the White House can start dialing back the USA Patriot Act.

 

[Bob]

I think its funny how the left likes to use the Constitution to go after the Bush administration but totally ignores it when pushing its socialist agenda.
There's nothing constitutional about taking over the banks, auto industry, health care, etc. I'll bet Ol' Bob knows the reason behind this.

yes, the federal government just took over because of socialism. tell that to biilybob when you keep him home from school on tuesday so the white hating, islamic, foreign born, socialist, illegally elected president tries to indoctrinate your kid. spend the extra time cleaning guns, and going to wal mart to see if they have a fresh shipment of bullets.

 

[LuciferSam]

yes, the federal government just took over because of socialism. tell that to biilybob when you keep him home from school on tuesday so the white hating, islamic, foreign born, socialist, illegally elected president tries to indoctrinate your kid. spend the extra time cleaning guns, and going to wal mart to see if they have a fresh shipment of bullets.

And y'all'l speaking Kenyan like it was your native tongue before long.