Beach erosion meeting tonight-Thursday7pm

[Smiling JOe]

Could you clarify this. I don't understand.

I interpreted it to mean that the seawalls will not protect the Gulf front properties with a direct hit from a big storm. I guess the other half means that with a seawall in place, people land will not fall onto the beach under normal conditions, thereby "protecting" the beach from intrusion. He was a bit vague in that statement.

 

[Beach Runner]

So, SJ, what do the people who want to protect the beach in the long term do since the politicians don't want to tick off the beachfront owners? Hire a hitman to destroy the seawalls?

Seawalls don't work from what I've seen on the Atlantic coast. Another alternative used on the Atlantic and not mentioned here is to have a concrete beach covered with sand like at The Cloister at Sea Island. This alternative needs soaker hoses to cool off the beach so beachgoers don't get blisters on their feet just walking to the beach. You don't get the natural cooling effect from the water below the sand if there's a concrete barrier in-between. It's really a hot surface. BTW it's not an acceptable alternative because of this.

 

[aquaticbiology]

>>>Beach renourishment was shown to be ineffective in offering storm surge protection. As an example: Pensacola Beach was renourished and Perdido Beach wasn't but there was no difference in erosion post hurricane.

But the sand lies offshore now - in pensacola, the sand that is now just off the beach is the extra, pumped-in sand, while the sand from perdido beach is the beach sand itself. - yes, you have to renourish the beach after every storm (duuh!), that's the whole point of renourishment - to give it sand to lose and not eat the real beach!

>>>Seaside is considering a modern engineered system to protect their beaches.

see above for blisters, and pocketbooks will be blistered too

no real solutions were presented? - I got as much from the unesco thing and it was for the carribean islands!

my conclusion is that I bet they don't even have property or friends in sowal - their opinion seems to be to just let all the houses fall down, then the retreat problem will solve itself! out:

 

[Smiling JOe]

no real solutions were presented? - I got as much from the unesco thing and it was for the carribean islands!

my conclusion is that I bet they don't even have property or friends in sowal - their opinion seems to be to just let all the houses fall down, then the retreat problem will solve itself! out:

You are correct. They do not seem to have a solution. I have been thinking of some inventions that may work to some degree, but my ideas are a dime a dozen. One of my ideas apparently has also been thought of already by the engineer that spoke at this meeting, and he is proposing it to Seaside. Sounds like they will give it a shot, but he is still in the design process.

 

[Kurt]

Thanks for the reports guys. This is great for those of us that can't make it to all the meetings, or live out of town!

 

[aquaticbiology]

he is proposing it to Seaside

a'la, a tarp, covering the beach area with sand and sea oats on top - storm comes in and washes off the trucked in sand and it gets replaced and replanted, but the original beach is still there under the tarp - sounds like the land version of renourishment

permeable membrane means all water (including rain) can go right through it - and then the rain water will liquefy the sand underneath and it will slump anyway

non-permeable membrane stops all the water from going through it and the water then consequently puddles and the sand just washes off like dirt off a tarp once it rains hard

semi-permeable (hole size in microns to allow some water through but slowly) may be the way to go since the sand needs some water to hold up, but not too much that it liquefies and slumps, and heavy rain needs a way to drain off the tarp, hopefully without taking the sand with it

of course, if this were easy then there would be a solution already

 

[aquaticbiology]

>>>I did find it interesting that to the east of Seaside, the beach has withered while the beach to the west, in SoWal, has grown.

something there is functioning as a 'groyne':

http://www.unesco.org/csi/pub/source/ero18.htm

 

[aquaticbiology]

I think I have the answer! I was reading the erosion thingy above and I saw it! Put the geotubes in the sea to create an artificial breakwater - sortof a artifical sand bar - the sand fills in behind it and there you go! I even remember Kurt commenting on the filling in behind a sand bar!

and

neat and simple - and the next storm may do the moving them into the sea to start the process!

 

[ecopal]

to SJ:
thanks for your report. You are correct about some of what I provided was from an after meeting side Q&A that I listened to.
I am glad you brought up the sand issue-it is very important because it could result in permant destructon of our famous sugar sand baches.to elaborate: the reddish sand that has been illegally put on the beach is impossible to remove once it has mixed with the pure white sand. We must all be vigilant in reporting any sand that we see being placed on the beach which is not pure white.

to Aquatic....:
In regards to what Seaside is going to do. What I provided is just a outline of an engineeering project in process so it would be inappropriate to criticize it. Also, the presenters only said it would not protect against storm surge-the coastal engineer is recommending dune renourishment.

 

[WLD]

For those who want to learn more, I recommend this book: "Living on the Edge of the Gulf: The West Florida and Alabama Coast" by David M. Bush, et. al. Published in 2001 by Duke University Press. It is packed with practical information from experts like the folks who spoke at this meeting.

I'm no expert, but I try to learn as much as I can. From what I can tell, the experts (who don't have a product to sell) say there is no man-made solution for storm protection. Sounds like the speakers at this session confirmed this.

The dunes protect the inland areas from storms. The dunes have been damaged in recent storms. They will heal themselves, but it takes time and they are not 'pretty' in the meantime. Dumping sand on them creates a sandpile, not a dune. When humans try to 'beautify' the dunes or stablize them with tubes, tarps, sandpiles, or whatever, we only harm Mother Nature's healing process. Putting up proper wind fencing, planting the dunes as they grow naturally, and keeping people, vehicles, and buildings off them are the only proven ways for humans to conserve dunes.

Beaches are another story. They don't protect inland areas from storms the way the dunes do, but they certainly add to the appeal of 30-A. Scraping and renourishment make them more attractive, but once we start nourishment, we'll have to keep doing it. There is justified concern that nourishment hurts the biology of the shoreline. And it's a given that sea walls destroy natural beaches.

My opinion: The beach and dune 'solutions' proposed are positioned as storm protection, but they're really about improving aesthetics quickly. We'll spend a lot of money and the next storm will wash away all the 'pretty' in minutes. Up to now, 30-A has not done much to mess with Mother Nature--unlike other Gulf Coast vacation areas that are largely man-made. We also have the special advantage of the coastal lakes, wetlands and so much parkland. Right now, we have an opportunity to keep things natural and market the area this way--or to become just another man-made resort area. Why not spend our money to be unique?

A hodgepodge assortment of dune and beach 'solutions' beach-by-beach seems like a recipe for disaster. Any ideas about how to make this a county or 30-A issue?