CFLs - the bulb everyone except the government hates

[30ashopper]

Now you've focused the debate on our system of Federalism--& what rights the Fed Gov't has vis-a-vis the State Govts vis-a-vis individual citizens. OK, I'll accept that under our system of Federalism, the rights/powers granted to the Fed Govt are different from those granted to the States. If I understand what you're saying, then, you agree that a State Govt has the right/power to set a minimum efficiency for the manufacture & sale of light bulbs?

Sure. I would argue though that such efforts are poorly designed and tend to punish those that act responsibly, which isn't the right way to go about such things.

 

[PearlSB4U]

Sure. I would argue though that such efforts are poorly designed and tend to punish those that act responsibly, which isn't the right way to go about such things.

I'm confused:

Are you saying that although the (State) govt has a legitimate right/power to dictate that light bulbs have a minimum efficiency, the govt shouldn't pass such a law because it punishes those who act responsibly?

Such a law would keep irresponsible folks from buying inefficient bulbs & using up more than their fair share of energy resources.

I don't see how it punishes those who would buy efficient bulbs even w/o such a law.

 

[LuciferSam]

It's all starting to make sense. The Republican/libertarian/teabaggers are in favor of violating the US constitution as long as it's done at the state/local level.

 

[30ashopper]

I'm confused:

Are you saying that although the (State) govt has a legitimate right/power to dictate that light bulbs have a minimum efficiency, the govt shouldn't pass such a law because it punishes those who act responsibly?

Such a law would keep irresponsible folks from buying inefficient bulbs & using up more than their fair share of energy resources.

I don't see how it punishes those who would buy efficient bulbs even w/o such a law.

If I live in house powered by solar, can I still purchase a 75W incandescent bulb after the ban takes effect?

 

[PearlSB4U]

It's all starting to make sense. The Republican/libertarian/teabaggers are in favor of violating the US constitution as long as it's done at the state/local level.

Originally, I thought Shopper's post was just typically anti-government in general.
Then, it appeared that his concern was "States Rights": the Feds have no authority to set certain standards, while lower-level governments do have the authority...But...setting efficiency standards for light bulbs is just a bad idea.
His orig post makes the point that setting efficiency standards for light bulbs is not perfect policy, nor does it solve all our energy problems. While these points are correct, setting efficiency standards for light bulbs saves energy just like mpg standards on cars or efficiency standards for air conditioners, refrigerators, etc. Now, I'm back to thinking that the orig post Was Indeed just one of his many anti-govt posts.

 

[30ashopper]

Another example that might hit a nerve - if I choose to smoke pot in my home, and lets say I don't drive under the influence after doing it and I don't give the stuff I'm smoking away or sell it, and there are no other people around who might be influenced by my action.. shouldn't such an act be legal? It's not of course - for the good of the overall group. I disagree with this approach - because in doing what's good for the group overall government restricts my right to do something that has no effect what-so-ever on the group! Government should not have the right to do that.

 

[30ashopper]

Originally, I thought Shopper's post was just typically anti-government in general.
Then, it appeared that his concern was "States Rights": the Feds have no authority to set certain standards, while lower-level governments do have the authority...But...setting efficiency standards for light bulbs is just a bad idea.
His orig post makes the point that setting efficiency standards for light bulbs is not perfect policy, nor does it solve all our energy problems. While these points are correct, setting efficiency standards for light bulbs saves energy just like mpg standards on cars or efficiency standards for air conditioners, refrigerators, etc. Now, I'm back to thinking that the orig post Was Indeed just one of his many anti-govt posts.

It's a mixture, there are many many things wrong with the federal light bulb ban. The discussion tends to meaner over all the reason why legislation like this shouldn't be implemented.

 

[PearlSB4U]

Another example that might hit a nerve - if I choose to smoke pot in my home, and lets say I don't drive under the influence after doing it and I don't give the stuff I'm smoking away or sell it, and there are no other people around who might be influenced by my action.. shouldn't such an act be legal? It's not of course - for the good of the overall group. I disagree with this approach - because in doing what's good for the group overall government restricts my right to do something that has no effect what-so-ever on the group! Government should not have the right to do that.

I think we're getting on the same wave length now: you want to debate where we should strike the balance between the rights of individuals and the rights of society as a whole.
Conservatives & Liberals are always debating where that balance should be for a whole range of issues: recreational drug use, motorcycle helmets, seat belts, public education, public health care, access to the legal system, minimum wage...etc., etc., etc.
I believe the govt Should set minimum efficiency standards for all appliances that use energy; you don't think so.
OK.

 

[30ashopper]

I think we're getting on the same wave length now: you want to debate where we should strike the balance between the rights of individuals and the rights of society as a whole.
Conservatives & Liberals are always debating where that balance should be for a whole range of issues: recreational drug use, motorcycle helmets, seat belts, public education, public health care, access to the legal system, minimum wage...etc., etc., etc.
I believe the govt Should set minimum efficiency standards for all appliances that use energy; you don't think so.
OK.

I don't have much of an issue with government standards as long as they aren't abused. I can think of a few examples of how voluntary standards have actually promoted commerce while not impugning anyone's individual rights. Banning light bulbs surreptitiously through energy standards doesn't fall into that category.

In general I think if you apply a core set of principals independent of context, you do less damage overall.

 

[30ashopper]

..and if you fail to succeed in convincing the group you're right, civil disobedience is always an option.