Class size amendment changes

[30ashopper]

thanks. if you get time, could you take a quick look and give me your opinion...
Session :Bills : : flsenate.gov

GW,

I've no idea about his stand or lack of it on offshore drilling, only know what I have heard from what others have said here.

As to class size, I have listened to several radio and TV discussions of this, and my understanding is not that he wants to increase class size. He, and a number of principals, want to be able to continue to use a whole-school average to achieve the proper class size, rather than having an absolute max number for every single classroom.

I understand why. If you're operating on the absolute no-more-than-___ students in a class for such and such a grade, the logistics can be nightmarish under all kinds of common situations. Say you have 2-3 full Algebra classes (or whatever) and you get a new student transferring to the school in, say, February. With individual classroom absolute maximum rules in place, you have to hire a teacher mid-year, and find another classroom and divide up the 3 other classes so some students from each class will become part of the 4th Algebra class. This is disruptive to all the students and teachers.

If, however, you can use whole-school averaging to achieve class size, and you have the full Algebra classes, but you have several other classes that aren't full, you don't have to disrupt all your Algebra students and teachers mid-year for a transferring student.

There are plenty of other situations where the averaging makes more sense. Not a perfect system, as there will always be some classes with more than the ideal # of students, but logistically and administratively, as well as common sensically (is that a word), the averaging seems more practical and doable.

So this change to the class size thing doesn't undermine the original amendment does it? Seems to me an absolute "you must put one teacher with X many student all the time" could conceivably contribute to a waste of resources, or worse, force schools into pulling teacher resources from students who need a lot of extra attention from those that don't.

 

[Andy A]

When I attended elementary, mid high, high school, junior college, college and graduate school, there were no class size restrictions. I, and all my compatriots, got along just fine and we learned regardless of how few or how many were in the classroom. IMO, it is a matter of the teacher's ability and the student's attentiveness that determines how good a classroom environment is, not the size of the class.

 

[Miss Critter]

I agree with you, Andy A. My first grade class had about 50 kids in it, with one teacher and an assistant. So much has changed since that time that I wonder if even the best teacher could control a class of 50 these days. Sitting still for any length of time without being bombarded with ever-changing video images, or chatting online seems to be a thing of the past. Not saying its good or bad, just different. But the way we teach in large part has not changed since that time. Its a new world, and one that requires us to rethink the way we impart information. Trying to make old methods conform to a new reality simply won't work, regardless of class size.

 

[Andy A]

I agree with you, Andy A. My first grade class had about 50 kids in it, with one teacher and an assistant. So much has changed since that time that I wonder if even the best teacher could control a class of 50 these days. Sitting still for any length of time without being bombarded with ever-changing video images, or chatting online seems to be a thing of the past. Not saying its good or bad, just different. But the way we teach in large part has not changed since that time. Its a new world, and one that requires us to rethink the way we impart information. Trying to make old methods conform to a new reality simply won't work, regardless of class size.

Possibly the most important aspect of a classroom situation difference between then and now, is student discipline and how it was maintained. As an example, if I screwed up in class and my parents heard about it, there was hell to pay when I got home. Consequently, it affected my classroom behavior greatly. I am not sure this is always the case today. It seems to me, parents, when I was growing up, were more prone to adhere to the "spare the rod, spoil the child" philosophy than they are today and as far as I was personally concerned, it was effective.

 

[scooterbug44]

I definitely think the number of students in a class is a big factor ................ and so is whether they are texting or playing on their phones during class - something I am constantly hearing is going on. :roll:

Not a fan of averaging as I have seen them getting funky with their math to justify circumventing the spirit of the rule. One special ed or AP class or aide can bring down overall numbers fast - and still leave you with 10 more kids in a class than they have decided is optimum.

 

[scooterbug44]

Possibly the most important aspect of a classroom situation difference between then and now, is student discipline and how it was maintained. As an example, if I screwed up in class and my parents heard about it, there was hell to paty when I got home. Consequently, it affected my classroom behavior greatly. I am not sure this is always the case today. It seems to me, parents, when I was growing up, were more prone to adhere to the "spare the rod, spoil the child" philosophy than they are today and as far as I was personally concerned, it was effective.

AMEN! I have been complaining about teachers being undermined by parents and unable to discipline for years! :angry: