College Kid Grades Make Me Steam!

[Beach Runner]

Being a parent, I know this would've been hard to to do, but I think I would've taken her at her word and given her a whole lot of nothing, then!

Well, let's put it this way. In years past we've had so many gifts that they spread out over 1/4 of the room. This year the gifts literally fit under the tree. My husband and I really didn't want anything (although he surprised me with a Dell Axim that I really needed since my Palm is so old that none of its synching software is compatible with my new computer). Daughter got DVDs.

 

[Paula]

Greta stuff Paula. I find a lot of it true and had not heard about fluid/fixed intelligence. This info helps me with my college child as well. Now, how to I tell people she wants to be a theatre major when they ask? I do not find it the most useful degree and can only hope she changes. She really loves all aspects which is important to enjoy your work, but does need to be able to provide for herself. The days of parent suppport will come to an end.

Yes, I think this stuff is very useful, too. I'm betting on it although I won't know for about 10 years if not more if it pays off for our kids since they're only 11 and 13. We'll see. The research on fluid versus fixed intelligence is by researcher Carolyn Dweck at Columbia (and others) and I agree that it's very interesting stuff. The research was done in the U.S. and Hong Kong.

I figure for an undergraduate degree I'll support the kids in whatever they decide, though -- like you -- I'll really want them to be able to support themselves. And the best thing they can do to get ready for a graduate degree or for getting a job out of undergrad is to do well in their undergrad degree and engage in the experience regardless of the topic. I think that usually graduate schools and job recruiters look for well-rounded students who can achieve whatever they put their mind to. The best way for them to succeed in a job interview is to show that they are interesting people who will do their best work and who help others do their best work, whatever that will be.

As I said, I'm hoping this all works for our kids -- we won't know until we get there for sure.

 

[newyorker]

Interesting thread! I'm not only a college dean, but I also have a college sophomore in Boston, and a daughter who's a hs senior (not the student her brother is). I really like the concepts Paula's laying out--highly selective schools like mine reward kids who are quick off the mark and good test takers (SAT scores are heavily weighed in any school who wants to compete to be "at the top".) But I've seen so many kids blossom in college who were not at the top of the class, and I've seen the high-test scorerers stumble. But what I think predicts success is finding a passion for some area and pursuing it--some of the saddest cases I've dealt with are kids whose parents want them to be doctors, and the kids doggedly pursue this, but they really don't want it themselves. (One young woman was a gifted musician--her family threatened to pull her home to a state school as "punishment" because she wanted to do music and not medicine.)
Theater, or chemistry or history (my son's major and my own discipline)--it doesn't matter as a major--what matters is getting a kid pumped up to want to learn, to do research on their own, to learn to write well and persuasively, and then to integrate that knowledge into the community, to go abroad and learn about other cultures--to be idealistic and save the world.
We ask a lot of adolescents now--they're not as worldly and sophisticated as they like to pretend. They still need time to grow up, to discover their passions, to learn about the world and they can function within it. Good advising is the most important thing a college can give an undergraduate--not in loco parentis type advising, but guidance and listening and respectful advice.

This is getting long-winded, and I apologize...I love my job and I really like college students. But I worry (as a parent too) that we are so scared of the consequences of failure that we can't let go and let these young people grow up. When I was at a state school in Bham that was not "highly selective" we got kids who'd crashed and burned elsewhere--many of them flourished because mom and dad closed the checkbook and told the kid to grow up--these were often the best students and they did well in their adult lives (some still correspond with me). All is not lost with the first term of college.

 

[Cil]

. But what I think predicts success is finding a passion for some area and pursuing itwhat matters is getting a kid pumped up to want to learn, to do research on their own, to learn to write well and persuasively, and then to integrate that knowledge into the community, to go abroad and learn about other cultures--to be idealistic and save the world. ...

We ask a lot of adolescents now--they're not as worldly and sophisticated as they like to pretend. They still need time to grow up, to discover their passions, to learn about the world and they can function within it...... Good advising is the most important thing a college can give an undergraduate--not in loco parentis type advising, but guidance and listening and respectful advice.

But I worry (as a parent too) that we are so scared of the consequences of failure that we can't let go and let these young people grow up. All is not lost with the first term of college.

New Yorker, I loved everything you said, but I quoted the above because it resonated most with me: with me personally, remembering how I was 25 years ago, and also with my own kids.

Young people seem so sophisticated these days, but it is a very thin veneer!
I like what you said about college advising; sometimes a counselor can truly *listen* better than a parent will. The ability to listen is underrated.

Our younger son, 16, wants to be a commercial pilot. Nothing will sway him. My husband is so worried about this in terms of career security as well as safety. I want the kid to get a college education. We will have a lot of decision-making--and listening--to do in the coming year.

 

[Paula]

New Yorker: Sounds like we share some of the same experiences with college students who go to college and select subjects that their parents want them to specialize in rather than what the student enjoys and wants to learn/explore. Some of these students of course learn to enjoy what their parents recommended. But some either do poorly in terms of grades or do well but are quite unhappy. I do think students need some guidance from their parents up to a point because they're still young (e.g., "be responsible"; "figure out what you enjoy"; "make a contribution to society"; "learn to take care of yourself and others"; "do your best work"; -- one of my favorites is "remember that perfection isn't always the same thing as excellence" -- I say that to students a lot). Of course, I say all this knowing full well that despite any outer appearance I may have, inside I'll be sobbing hysterically when my children leave for college. SoWal will be my therapy (so I think I'll get over it pretty quickly...)

I'm also realizing with my own children that students learn in different ways. I know that in theory, but I can see it personally in my children. Some learning styles work very well in terms of getting grades at school. Other learning styles can be under-utilized at colleges. For exampale, some students learn visually, some are auditory learners (they learn through what they hear and read and this is probably the style that's well-matched with most schools and colleges), and others have a more tactical/feeling orientation toward learning. I have one daughter who doesn't like to read much (neither did I until I was in my 20s and now I love it) and I realized she may be a visual and tactical/feeling learner. So, I think some students have trouble in school because they learn differently than the ways they are being taught. Of course, to succeed these students have to adapt (which can be to their benefit because they may end up being more well-rounded learners in the long run and after some struggles).

Sigh... I love this stuff, too...

 

[Paula]

One thing I forgot to say, iwishiwasthere, is that my brother-in-law got an undergrad degree in theatre and has made a successful living acting in theatre, TV, and script writing (he also spent many years as a waiter in New York before he could make a living in acting). Now, he has a very nice house in Los Angeles and loves what he does. He (and his wife who is also in the same profession) have the same struggles and stresses everyone else has about saving money/putting kids through college/etc. -- but at least they're doing what they love. And they have some VERY interesting stories to tell.

 

[Jdarg]

Thanks all of you for taking the time to share your knowledge and experiences! I'm going to print and save this thread- I KNOW I will need to starty studying these concepts sooner than I realize.... :shock:

 

[TooFarTampa]

Thank you Mermaid for starting this thread. I am eating it all up, especially the theories introduced by Paula and the on-campus perspective by BR and newyorker.

As a mom of little boys (5 and 2) I actually think about this stuff a lot. My middle-class, struggling parents busted their butts to put my brother and I in separate private schools, because the different curriculums were exactly what we needed. I got a fantastic education and was very well prepared for college, but a whole lot of nonsense went with it. At my school you had the doctors' children who were pushed into being doctors, you had the kids driving BMWs, and lots of others who just took mommy and daddy's money and status as if it were theirs too. (To this day one of my favorite TV quotes is from the Cosby Show. One of the daughters comes to Cliff and says her friends say she is rich. "You are not rich," Cliff says. "Your mother and I are rich." ) My husband also went to private school, and his parents had money and status in his smallish hometown, but after college he was definitely on his own.

So now, thanks to more butt busting and a number of bold choices that most of our friends wouldn't have made because they were difficult or uncomfortable, my husband and I can fairly easily afford to send our kids to the same kind of school. We even have a place at the beach, for god's sake. But I am so afraid of my kids being too pampered. I have a very unique perspective -- I have seen what happens to many pampered kids first hand and it frightens me. They eventually turn out OK, but in many cases it takes awhile and the journey is painful.

What we are trying to with ours (so far) is encourage problem-solving and independence, focus on a love of learning, require some level of giving to those less fortunate, and not give them everything they want but provide everything they need.

These things are all easier said than done of course. I went light on the Christmas presents this year, at least compared to other parents I know. I was starting to feel guilty, like I was depriving them. Which is ridiculous, but when the boy around the corner gets one of those battery powered motorcycles to ride around the neighborhood, and my kid gets a Transformer and a little remote control airplane, I start to wonder whether I've done the right thing, and how long I'll be able to keep it up.

To Mermaid: there is a boy I went to high school with who had similar grades at Duke in his freshman year. Basically he went to school and could not stop partying. I think he had a 1.3 or something. Anyway, he eventually brought his grades up, got into medical school and is now a physician in his father's practice. So it can all turn out OK. I hope Alex finds what he really wants and loves to do. When you combine that with supportive (but expectant) parents like yourself, he cannot lose.

 

[iwishiwasthere]

These things are all easier said than done of course. I went light on the Christmas presents this year, at least compared to other parents I know. I was starting to feel guilty, like I was depriving them. Which is ridiculous, but when the boy around the corner gets one of those battery powered motorcycles to ride around the neighborhood, and my kid gets a Transformer and a little remote control airplane, I start to wonder whether I've done the right thing, and how long I'll be able to keep it up.

You did and are doing the right thing. Stuff is not as important as time spent with children and the values you give them. I live in a small town where "things" are a big deal. My husband and I do not buy into that concept, so our girls did not get a new car when they turned 16, expensive clothes, etc. However they both agree that they appreciate us not allowing them to be spoiled children. At college they were/are surrounded by very wealthy, priviledged students and did not seem to care about the differences. The youngest lives with a girl that has a personal shopper and won't wear clothes form Gap or Old Navy because they are too basic. My child shops at thrift stores and loves sales racks. She thinks her roommates obsession with status is too fuuny.

Both children were/are both very loved and adored, but not with stuff. Stick to your ideas and it will turn out good.

 

[Franny]

I agree about showing him the thread. I esp like SJ's and Cap'n's advice.
The first year can be the easiest or the worst, depending on the student and the major.

Our older son messed around all through high school. He didn't especially like being told what to do. When he went off to college, nobody was hanging over him; he was accountable mostly to himself. This was the motivation he needed and wanted. His grades went up dramatically and stayed that way; he finished two degrees (French and International Relations) in 3 and a half years.

Is Alex happy with his major? That can make a difference.

Just curious Cil..I have a nephew with the same major and was wondering what your son is doing with his degree.