Eastern Lake opened

[gsigman]

I wonder if they will eventually do the same thing over at Camp Creek lake.

 

[Lake View Too]

Information

I didn't mean to seem discourteous to anyone. I am trying to get information to all of you so that everyone can know what the situation is. For three years, visitors have asked me what's wrong with Eastern Lake. I try to explain it without resorting to slogans like "politics and apathy". In the 45 years before the sand barrier was deposited, the lake was opened mechanically perhaps five times. In the three years since the sand barrier, it has had to be opened mechanically maybe ten times. You can make your own inference from that. Here is some of my photographic information. I'd be happy to see anyone else's.

 

[scooterbug44]

I disagree that the lake "had" to be opened mechanically 10x in the last 3 years.

I'm not saying the sand at the outfall area hasn't changed, but that we are micromanaging the lake and wasting $ in the process.

 

[NotDeadYet]

I didn't mean to seem discourteous to anyone. I am trying to get information to all of you so that everyone can know what the situation is. For three years, visitors have asked me what's wrong with Eastern Lake. I try to explain it without resorting to slogans like "politics and apathy". In the 45 years before the sand barrier was deposited, the lake was opened mechanically perhaps five times. In the three years since the sand barrier, it has had to be opened mechanically maybe ten times. You can make your own inference from that. Here is some of my photographic information. I'd be happy to see anyone else's.

Well you know, Lake View Too, you are just wrong. The county was already pursuing a "no notice" permit for Eastern Lake, along with Western, Alligator and Oyster Lakes, when the hurricanes came along in 2005. You can verify this several ways. Check with the county, the DEP or the Herald Breeze files. And why was the county seeking a permit to allow them to dig out the lake without having to fool around with a DEP permit every time? Because it was already an issue when Worth Williams came along with the sand piles. People were already trying to control the lake level and the salinity and the outlet's path.
I've looked at your pictures and I don't see your point. Over time, and by time I mean decades, many decades, the lake outlet has changed course, the salinity and the ecology of the lake has shifted many times, and storms have brought in huge sand berms and then eventually removed them. It is only lately, and by lately I mean like the lifetimes of people living around the lake now, that all this shifting and changing has been considered inconvenient and therefore in need of "management."
Have you driven over the Camp Creek bridge lately? All the dune lakes have filled up. All of them have had lots of sand piled up at the outlets.
The only thing that is "wrong" with Eastern Lake is that people won't leave it alone.

 

[Matt J]

Lake View Too everytime this issue comes up you blame the entire issue on Worth Williams and his sand. In addition you act as though the lake is supposed to maintain a constant level and salinity level. Those two goals seem to be most peoples stumbling blocks. It's like getting mad when the temperature isn't reaching 80 degrees everyday and blaming controlled burning.

As to your comment that the ecosystem of the lake has been harmed, please show me proof. You state that the salinity levels are not correct, however the crabs in the lake seem to be as plentiful as ever. Crabs cannot survive outside of a brackish (that's partial salt water) conditions. In this instance I am referring to the common blue crab so don't bother finding articles about fresh water crabs.

You state that the lake cannot break out on it's own. This is a baseless statement. Had the county waited just 24 hours it would have broken of it's own accord. I am currently watching the outfall for Deer lake which is close to breaking open as well. It is not affecting any of the homes on Deer lake and will open when it's good and ready.

All of the "facts" that you present don't pan out or make sense. The interesting thing is that anytime humans attempt to "correct" nature by interfering again it only makes things worse. The lake must be left alone to correct itself. Everyone seems so concerned about the amount of sand in front of the outfall and yet no one on your side of the fence ever seems to want the dune fencing installed directly in the path of the old outfall removed. This simply causes even more sand to build up.

I've got news for you, the lake will correct itself in time, but you have to give it time. Everyone who is for opening of the lake is guilty of a gotta have it right now attitude. They can't wait for the lake to open naturally not because of concerns over helping the lake, but by a selfish need to have their dock above water or the fear that invasive and unnatural grass could be killed. Please post an example outside of a tropical event (that's hurricane or tropical storm) that someone's house was flooded due to the lake not opening.

If everyone is so concerned that lake be "restored" to it's original outfall why doesn't the county apply to the DEP to do just that, instead of a permit to simply open the lake everytime someone's petunia garden is threatened? Based on surveys and thousands of pictures of the outfall prior to the great sand dumping incident the county could restore it. If it closes after that then too bad it might just be mother natures decision.

 

[Lake View Too]

"The interesting thing is that anytime humans attempt to correct nature they end up causing more problems." SWGB , I agree completely with your sentiment. Isn't this what happened when Worth Williams deposited the sand? Is it OK for him to "correct nature"? Listen folks, I do not remember anybody trying to get a "no notice" permit before Ivan. There was no problem as evidenced by my current photo(the day before Ivan) The simple fact is there have been no man-made sand barriers deposited in the Eastern Lake floodplain since the beginning of time and just maybe this event has caused a great big problem. Doesn't karma suggest that removing 500 cubic yards of sand might make things "right"?

Micromanaging the lake outfall is not what anybody wants, but many of us think that if we don't restore the mouth of the inlet," the lagoon" as I like to call it, to the state it was in for the 45 years before Dennis, then there will forever be problems. I certainly don't like the fact that people were allowed to build too close to the lake (some of them four decades ago, some of them just years ago) but I consider them my neighbors and I wouln't wish their homes to be undermined just because well meaning people want nature to take care of things.

 

[BeachSiO2]

A permit to manage the lake was applied for prior to Hurricane Ivan on May 10, 2004. The permit was issued on September 11, 2008. Click the dates to see the files.

 

[NotDeadYet]

Thanks, BeachSiO2.
Lake View Too, the county did not just wake up one morning in the spring of 2004 and say, oh, let's go to all the time, trouble and expense of getting a permit to open Eastern Lake. They responded to people who thought the lake and its outlet ought to be managed to achieve a certain state. I've looked at your latest picture, and it is pretty. But you know, I still don't see your point in posting it. You cannot take a snapshot in time and say this is how a coastal dune lake ought to be. They don't work like that. You need to take a longer view of things and realize that over the many, many years, and that would be centuries, that the lakes have been around, they sometimes look one way and sometimes another. They may host blue crabs, or they may not. They are dynamic, changing systems.

 

[Bob]

The Lake will never bust out naturally in a robust way because of the sheer amount of sand that has acrued since hurricane Dennis. Most of the problem is that Dennis pushed a majority of the 500 cubic yards of sand barrier deposited in 2005 into the lakeside mouth of the inlet. This has caused any outbreak, whether manmade or natural , to be severely restricted, and hence, the inlet will never bust out with enough gusto to "repair" itself.

The two issues are (1) the inability of the lake to break out naturally, with enough gusto to insure saltwater backflow, has damaged the ecology of the lake drastically in the space of less than two years. (2) the inability of the lake to break out naturally has forced the DEP to establish a trigger point determined by them that they deemed the point where the lake height is affecting public safety and well being.

The people of the lake who have been working strongly toward correcting this problem feel that removing the sandbar from the mouth of the inlet, that has been obstructing the flow since Dennis, would allow it to flow better.

All of you who cry about let nature do it's thing... where were you when 500 cubic feet of sand barrier was deposited in 2005. You people are a bunch of hypocrits.

perhaps the state could buy out the lakefront hypocrites

 

[Matt J]

"The interesting thing is that anytime humans attempt to correct nature they end up causing more problems." SWGB , I agree completely with your sentiment. Isn't this what happened when Worth Williams deposited the sand? Is it OK for him to "correct nature"? Listen folks, I do not remember anybody trying to get a "no notice" permit before Ivan. There was no problem as evidenced by my current photo(the day before Ivan) The simple fact is there have been no man-made sand barriers deposited in the Eastern Lake floodplain since the beginning of time and just maybe this event has caused a great big problem. Doesn't karma suggest that removing 500 cubic yards of sand might make things "right"?

Micromanaging the lake outfall is not what anybody wants, but many of us think that if we don't restore the mouth of the inlet," the lagoon" as I like to call it, to the state it was in for the 45 years before Dennis, then there will forever be problems. I certainly don't like the fact that people were allowed to build too close to the lake (some of them four decades ago, some of them just years ago) but I consider them my neighbors and I wouln't wish their homes to be undermined just because well meaning people want nature to take care of things.

Once again I will tell you to let the issue of the sand dump go. You keep going back to that and you twisted my words.

I never stated that he was entitled to correct nature. I was simply stating that perhaps we shouldn't keep trying to correct it. You've got some great pictures of the outfall as it appeared at one time. Regardless of what someone did restoring the outfall to that picture probably wouldn't leave you happy in just a couple of years as it would change. It might even fill itself in. The point here is that it is a natural formation and should not be "managed".

You also seem to speak out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand you pitch a fit that the sand dump has created an untenable problem and it was a horrible act against nature to put the sand there. Then in the same paragraph you state that opening the lake is great as some people completely ignored set backs and illegally built close to the lake. I don't care if you live on Eastern lake, Western lake, or Lake Michigan. When you build on a lake you should understand and inherit the risk that flooding is possible. To ignore that fact is just that ignorance.