Eleven Fla Counties forbid teaching of Evolution

[Bdarg]

I have too many questions to be a decent philosophy teacher, but thanks. I once took a philosophy class which was focused on proving the highly-praised worldly philosophers wrong. It was one of the best classes I have ever taken.

My best philosophy professors were that ones who had way more questions than answers. The ones that had all of the answers were not only rare but made the worst philosophy professors IMO. I always looked at philosophy as the study of possibilities for things unknown.

 

[NoHall]

I keep swearing that I won't even LOOK at this thread any more.

​

I've already said this, but I'll say it again: I (and I'm a born-again, Southern Baptist by birth, Calvinist by preordination, Bible-totin' Christian) agree wholeheartedly that ID falls under the category of Metaphysics, which is a branch of PHILOSOPHY, not physical science.

I am currently a candidate for a Master of Arts in Teaching at a fully accredited college, which means I take a whole buttload of education classes with a buttload of teachers. So far, I have yet to meet a teacher in those classes who wasn't raised in a church in the Bible belt (statistically, probably Southern Baptist) and who doesn't believe that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Intelligent Design. I have also yet to meet one that disagrees with teaching evolution. Just last night one of these teachers told about taking her son to Fernbank, where he read something about evolution on one of the displays. Apparently, that had not been covered in his science class so far, so this mother (CHRISTIAN mother) taught him about it herself. Natural selection and adaptation has been evidenced and verified over and over, and I don't know a single Christian teacher who cares to dispute it.

I mentioned this debate in class last night, and the 10 students (all of us were Christians, and most of us raised Southern Baptist) and my professor (an elementary school principal and big shot expert in critical thinking) all said the exact same things you're saying: A good teacher teaches the facts first. S/he also teaches ALL of the scientific theories and teaches the students to think critically about ALL of them. Teach evolution, but bring up the missing link which is still missing. Bible stories (or Native American, or whatever) are best put in the context of a history class or comparative religion, but if they come up in science class, look at them SCIENTIFICALLY and have the parents teach religion.

Absolutely NONE of my colleagues wanted anyone teaching their child about Christianity in a public school.

The only place where I know that ID is actually taught are in private Christian schools. However, I know dozens--scores!--of highly intelligent educators who believe that the universe was intelligently designed.

I have my dander up over this thread because it seems to be the common belief on SoWal.com that all Christians believe the same way that the agenda-pushers believe.

They don't. We don't. I don't.

The faith I embrace is about love, abundant life, freedom, and truth. I was taught to love God with all my heart, soul, MIND, and strength, and nothing that can be proved in the physical world is going to run contrary to that. If it turns out that we did, in fact, descend from the apes, it won't harm my faith. I pity the Christians that believe they are not allowed to ask questions or to function in the physical world.

 

[InletBchDweller]

I have a question about science teachers. I don't really know any. Are there science teachers who believe in or accept ID, but must stick to the facts in the classroom?

or are there science teachers who not only believe in ID, but are trained to teach the material, so they use this as their content when teaching evolution? do they get to make that choice?

what are science teachers trained and/or prepared to teach in the classroom? maybe this is the real question.

I would say most teachers believe in God, but they aren't going to teach about God. So, if a teacher believes in ID, an argument for the existence of God, does that mean she is going to teach it in place of evolution?

Is ID really accepted by schools now?

I'm confused.

Toots,
I pulled out my Teaching Children Science that i still have from college!

Granted it is a very general book. I saw nothing of ID in it. The BIG BANG was mentioned and Evolution was listed at a type of Biology. That is all.
I did teach 8th grade science for one semester but this was not in the subject matter for that time of year.

 

[InletBchDweller]

I keep swearing that I won't even LOOK at this thread any more.

​

I have my dander up over this thread because it seems to be the common belief on SoWal.com that all Christians believe the same way that the agenda-pushers believe.

They don't. We don't. I don't.

The faith I embrace is about love, abundant life, freedom, and truth. I was taught to love God with all my heart, soul, MIND, and strength, and nothing that can be proved in the physical world is going to run contrary to that. If it turns out that we did, in fact, descend from the apes, it won't harm my faith. I pity the Christians that believe they are not allowed to ask questions or to function in the physical world.

NoHall, very well said. Thank you for doing so. I know many people dont post their feelings on controversial threads on this board b/c they dont want someone not to like them, or they may disagree with a fellow wench, or they just dont like controversy. I used to read and not post on certain threads but I now feel that my thoughts are just as important even if others dont agree.

I also believe that some people think that b/c you are a Christian then you are the ultra agenda pushers. Just like if you are a Republican then you simply must be a "right wing nutjob or evil conservative" or a Democrat you are a "far left liberal" I think many of us are just a good combo of both...


Now back to the ID subject matter.

 

[Teresa]

I keep swearing that I won't even LOOK at this thread any more.

​

Absolutely NONE of my colleagues wanted anyone teaching their child about Christianity in a public school.

and this is all that I have asked as well.

The only place where I know that ID is actually taught are in private Christian schools. However, I know dozens--scores!--of highly intelligent educators who believe that the universe was intelligently designed. this was never the issue - what you believe is what you believe - that is great and wonderful.

I have my dander up over this thread because it seems to be the common belief on SoWal.com that all Christians believe the same way that the agenda-pushers believe.

why would you think this? I am a christian - born and raised (therefore no need to be born again). I do not think this at all.


I pity the Christians that believe they are not allowed to ask questions or to function in the physical world.

I don't know what you mean by this.. please explain. who isn't allowed to do what?

if you haven't learned anything by this discussion, then indeed it is a trainwreck of a thread. I've learned quite a lot! more about ID than I ever wanted to know. but at least now I know and I am glad.

 

[Smiling JOe]

In the book, The First and Last Freedom, by J. Krishnamurti, Aldous Huxley writes in the Foreword, "An edcuation that teaches us not how, but what to think, is an education that calls for a governing class of pastors and masters."

 

[Teresa]

I like it SJ. thanks for that.

I think we got off track on this thread. did anyone really read the article that FBB was referring to when he started this eye opening thread? take a look. it is not as much about ID as much as it is about evolution being removed from science curriculum... it is also about the kind of thinking going on in our own state. we need to know this. we need to be prepared... take a look.





Posted on Thu, Jan. 10, 2008
Kids paying for holy war over evolution

By FRED GRIMM
T he nine-hour drive was only the physical distance traveled by the two emissaries from rural Taylor County, nestled in the crook where Florida bends around the Gulf. Those 405 miles were nothing compared to the cultural gap they found in Miramar.
Oscar Howard Jr., superintendent of Taylor County's School District, and Danny Lundy, vice chairman of the School Board, spoke in accents from that other Florida. ''We're opposed to teaching evolution as a fact,'' Howard said, adding that his School Board and 11 others have passed resolutions against the imposition of evolution in the school curriculum.
Evolution, Lundy warned, would tear the Taylor public schools apart. ''The good people back home,'' he worried, would have no choice but to pull their kids out of school.
DIFFERENT UNIVERSES
Others attending the hearing on reviving the state of education's science standards Tuesday denounced this notion of teaching evolution, some evoking an evangelical language that hardly translated on the other side of the divide. A woman talked about God and miracles and friends brought back from death and how biblical faith, not evolution, revealed the only answers to life's mysteries.
When geologist Ina B. Alterman, formerly of the National Research Council, came to the microphone to defend science, evolution and freedom from religious interference in education, it was as if she were speaking another language. She and her allies -- scientists, teachers, parents -- offered reasoned arguments for teaching evolution that would seem to overwhelm any science-based opposition. Hers was a majority position at the Miramar hearing. Oscar Howard Jr. said that up in Perry, anti-evolutionists would have made up 80 percent of the crowd.
Mindful of attitudes in that other Florida, Boca Raton physician Tom Hall warned of the legal costs incurred by a quixotic, unconstitutional attempt by the Dover, Penn., School Board to teach faith-based Intelligent Design. But a Miami paramedic warned that taking God out of the classroom has led to immorality and violence. He related the beating death last week of a toddler by a 12-year-old in Lauderhill to the teaching of evolution. An unfathomable leap in logic on one side of the divide. An understandable leap of faith on the other.
LET KIDS DECIDE?
Even the word theory, this night, suffered irreconcilable definitions. Darwin's theory, up in Taylor County, population 20,000, only rates the pedestrian meaning: unproven speculation. Scientists speaking Tuesday night, one after another, reminded the audience that scientifically, the theory of evolution was no more speculative than the theory of gravity. This theory, they said, formed the basis for all biological science, girded by 156 years of research. Some who doubted Darwin suggested a populist solution. Teach all theories of creation. Let the kids decide. As if biology were as subjective as philosophy.
More arguments and counter-arguments about faith and evolution were launched into a vacuum of irreconcilable beliefs. Then, the final speaker, Lisa Dizengoff, director of science curriculum at Pembroke Pines Charter School's east campus, angrily reminded the crowd that after all the carping over evolution, no one had gotten around to addressing the state's lackadaisical, last-century approach to science education. ''All I heard was this argument about evolution,'' she said, disgusted that so many other problems had been preempted by a single controversy. ``The kids lost out again.''








? 2008 Miami Herald Media Company. All Rights Reserved.
http://www.miamiherald.com

 

[Smiling JOe]

Us, get side-tracked? lol. Thanks for bringing it back. I did read it, and find it terrible that those schools are choosing not to teach the children how to think.

 

[Jdarg]

"He related the beating death last week of a toddler by a 12-year-old in Lauderhill to the teaching of evolution."

How does one even try to have a rational conversation with someone who thinks like this? I understand seeing another point of view, but can't I expect the other point of view to be sane?

 

[Smiling JOe]

Well, if humans had not grown arms and fists, beating someone to death would become more difficult.