Health Care Debate Fact versus Fantasy

[AndrewG]

You assume the quality of healthcare wont suffer and everyone will get access to decent care.

If everyone gets access to free crappy healthcare what have you really accomplished? Does it make you sleep better at night? You'll still have to pay out of pocket if you want quality care. That's what Canadians have to do and they still wait.

It seems like a noble cause but it will result in another entitlement gone horribly wrong. We can't afford it.

 

[idlewind]

I would like to be the kind of country that takes care of it's older people and it's poor people, but allows the working people, people whose families make less than $88,000 per year, to suck it up and lose everything if they get sick. And for those who are already sick and can't get coverage -- sucks to be you. Get a job (but only with a large corporation with more than 200 employees, so you don't lose your job after being put through medical underwriting).

Wait, no...I would prefer the other kind of country, actually. The kind that cares about personal responsibility. If you live in this country and you get very ill, you do not go without treatment. If that was the case, people might be really reluctant to go without insurance. But those who choose to (or let's face it, have to) go without insurance are not contributing to the healthcare system, a system that shifts costs to the paying patients and where trying to figure out the real price of anything is so impossible as to make any kind of market based controls a fantasy. We are already paying for the healthcare of these people, only it's being delivered as inefficiently and expensively as possible -- late and in the ER. The uninsured are contributing little or nothing. No one turns them away from the emergency room when they are truly sick or in danger of losing life or limb.

An open market for insurance policies and a requirement for personal responsibility...what is socialist about that?

I think STATES requiring health insurance is not a bad idea. I also think open markets are a good thing.
I don't want the national government involved. One size fits all generally goes to the lowest common denominator.
We would all be better of if the medicaid system was dismantled and the states allowed to manage their own healthcare.

 

[rapunzel]

I think STATES requiring health insurance is not a bad idea. I also think open markets are a good thing.
I don't want the national government involved. One size fits all generally goes to the lowest common denominator.
We would all be better of if the medicaid system was dismantled and the states allowed to manage their own healthcare.

You know, I just don't agree. Maybe if people were like tumbleweeds, and could pull up stakes and move to the state of their choice to suit their healthcare and insurance needs...that's not the way the world works. The way states currently regulate healthcare is insane. Some states have competant insurance commissioners and good laws, others just don't. Insurance companies operating out of North Carolina and Alabama never pay their claims, Kansas and Missouri always deny pre-authorization for any expensive procedure. Florida and New York pay way too much for out of network services, driving up premiums.

If it weren't a federal law, only about ten states would cover breast reconstruction following a mastectomy -- because it's way easier for insurance companies to lobby at the state level and scare people with threats of premiums going up because of mandates.

Our states are diverse, but the huge differences in healthcare from state to state don't make sense. You'd have to dismantle Medicare to make it work, too.

 

[idlewind]

You know, I just don't agree. Maybe if people were like tumbleweeds, and could pull up stakes and move to the state of their choice to suit their healthcare and insurance needs...that's not the way the world works. The way states currently regulate healthcare is insane. Some states have competant insurance commissioners and good laws, others just don't. Insurance companies operating out of North Carolina and Alabama never pay their claims, Kansas and Missouri always deny pre-authorization for any expensive procedure. Florida and New York pay way too much for out of network services, driving up premiums.

If it weren't a federal law, only about ten states would cover breast reconstruction following a mastectomy -- because it's way easier for insurance companies to lobby at the state level and scare people with threats of premiums going up because of mandates.

Our states are diverse, but the huge differences in healthcare from state to state don't make sense. You'd have to dismantle Medicare to make it work, too.

You are right, this is the fundemental disagreement, big central government vs. government closer to those governed.
I think we should dismantle all federal healthcare programs. The individual states should manage the care if it's citizens. The citizens can choose what they want. Citizens in Alabama have differnent needs from citizens in Virginia and the best care is delivered by getting the control of the delivery system closest to those served.
We cannot afford these huge programs at the National level, we are driving our country into bankruptcy.

 

[Matt J]

You are right, this is the fundemental disagreement, big central government vs. government closer to those governed.
I think we should dismantle all federal healthcare programs. The individual states should manage the care if it's citizens. The citizens can choose what they want. Citizens in Alabama have differnent needs from citizens in Virginia and the best care is delivered by getting the control of the delivery system closest to those served.
We cannot afford these huge programs at the National level, we are driving our country into bankruptcy.

You're over generalizing. One neighbor has different needs from another neighbor.

I thought you were pro small government, why duplicate one government entity 51 times?

 

[beachFool]

So What

Similarily, families will see their premiums rise to around 13K a year assuming they are paying less today.

Given the current insurance premium inflation rate (just doing nothing), our rates will rise from 6600 to 13459 in four years.

Insurance premiums RISE as you get older. It's one of the reasons Medicare came into existence. Folks couldn't afford the premiums.

It's math. But thanks for the idea for a column!

 

[30ashopper]

Given the current insurance premium inflation rate (just doing nothing), our rates will rise from 6600 to 13459 in four years.

Insurance premiums RISE as you get older. It's one of the reasons Medicare came into existence. Folks couldn't afford the premiums.

It's math. But thanks for the idea for a column!

Outlier forcasts have premium growth at around 133% for the last decade, and that's for all-you-can-eat care. We're talking about HDHCs, which you should know aren't the same, since you have one. Kaiser estimated growth in standard deductable plans over the next dacade may grow between 130%-160% without any type of reform being passed.

Where did you get your figures?

 

[Matt J]

Outlier forcasts have premium growth at around 133% for the last decade, and that's for all-you-can-eat care. We're talking about HDHCs, which you should know aren't the same, since you have one. Kaiser estimated growth in standard deductable plans over the next dacade may grow between 130%-160% without any type of reform being passed.

Where did you get your figures?

What time frame is that?

 

[beachFool]

Outlier forcasts have premium growth at around 133% for the last decade, and that's for all-you-can-eat care. We're talking about HDHCs, which you should know aren't the same, since you have one. Kaiser estimated growth in standard deductable plans over the next dacade may grow between 130%-160% without any type of reform being passed.

Where did you get your figures?

You betcha.

My wife (who passed the CPA exam) computed our annual increase (19.5%) for EACH of the last two years.

Took our annual premium-simple math.

Plugged those numbers into my trusty HP 10B and solved for future value.

Forecasts are fine and dandy but these are real numbers.

 

[30ashopper]

You betcha.

My wife (who passed the CPA exam) computed our annual increase (19.5%) for EACH of the last two years.

Took our annual premium-simple math.

Plugged those numbers into my trusty HP 10B and solved for future value.

Forecasts are fine and dandy but these are real numbers.

So for the next four years, your rates increase as you would expect them, assuming your two year is an accurate long term average. If they rise less, you'll pay more in 2014. Beyond that, your healthcare will be of a higher cost to providers, and will be paid for by younger generations forced into the system, higher taxes on income, and cuts to medicare. What do you anticipate your annual premium increases to be after 2014?