High School Test Scores

[Matt J]

Small rural districts like Walton cannot support such programs with the current budget cuts. When they have to cut something gifted programs are among the first to go. Here are some quotes from real experts.

"Rural districts like us, we've been literally bleeding to death," said Gary Tyrrell, assistant superintendent of the Mountain Grove School District, which has 1,550 students. The formula for cutting back in hard times was straightforward, if painful, Mr. Tyrrell said: Satisfy federal and state requirements first. Then, "Do as much as we can for the majority and work on down."

Unlike services for disabled children, programs for gifted children have no single federal agency to track them. A survey by the National Association for Gifted Children found that 22 states did not contribute toward the costs of programs for gifted children, and five other states spent less than $250,000

In Michigan, state aid for gifted students fell from more than $4 million a year to $250,000. Illinois, which was spending $19 million a year on programs for fast learners, eliminated state financing for them. New York was spending $14 million a year on education for the gifted but has now cut all money earmarked for gifted children, saying districts should pay for them out of block grants. Nearly one in four school districts in Connecticut have eliminated their programs for gifted students.

Basically school districts have no money but they get money based on having kids pass a below level test so they spend money on that and dont care about GAT students because they will get the money for them either way.

I'm kind of lost on what your saying. When I was in the "gifted" program in school it was Federally funded. That may have changed, but the funding came, then, from the same funding sources for disabled children, including learning disabilities.

 

[melscuba]

I'm kind of lost on what your saying. When I was in the "gifted" program in school it was Federally funded. That may have changed, but the funding came, then, from the same funding sources for disabled children, including learning disabilities.

That's precisely what I thought.

 

[hkem1]

That's precisely what I thought.

This is a quote from the U.S. department of education
"States and localities are the primary sources of K-12 education funding and always have been."
I thought that was something everyone learned in 5th grade American history.

According to the U.S. department of education in 1991 only 5.7 was the federal share of public education. And by 2005 that had risen but still was only 8.3 percent. 45% came from state funds and 37.1 percent came from local governments. 65% of federal funds for education went to programs for students with disabilities and schools with economically disadvanteged students.

Lastly, the DOE says that 95 percent of federal money is sent directly to individual districts and states to be spent on 5 programs.
-ESEA title 1 (disadvantaged students)
-Idea part 1 (disabled students)
-Improving teacher quality
-Community learning centers
-English language learners
-Schools impacted by military bases.

So gifted and talented programs are not funded by the federal government and if states don't want to spend 95% their federal money on those 5 things then their only option is not to accept the money.

 

[WCTA]

Did You Know ?

is there not a program for the talented and gifted? Here in atlanta, the kids are put on an entirely different track once identified as "talented and gifted". Basically, these kids have their own wing of the middle school and are tracked into the ap/college level courses for high school. In asking about the "tag" program for the elementary school, i was told the program was called "quest" and these kids were identified and serviced. Why would this program not continue into high school? I think it's the law that each child is entitled to the least restrictive environment... This includes kids on the high end of the spectrum as well. I would argue that a classroom that can not handle the individual learning pace of my gifted child is not offering her the least restrictive environment. Anyone care to comment?

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[hkem1]

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WOW

Your post is propaganda at it's best it uses the term "exceptional students" but it does not tell you what Florida considers an "exceptional student".

According to Florida Title XLVIII - K-20 Education Code an exceptional student is defined as "The term "exceptional student" means any student who has been determined eligible for a special program in accordance with rules of the State Board of Education. The term includes students who are gifted and students with disabilities who are mentally handicapped, speech and language impaired, deaf or hard of hearing, visually impaired, dual sensory impaired, physically impaired, emotionally handicapped, specific learning disabled, hospital and homebound, autistic, developmentally delayed children, ages birth through 5 years, or children with established conditions, ages birth through 2 years, with established conditions that are identified in State Board of Education rules pursuant to s.1003.21(1)(e)."

So of course if an exceptional student is one who is eligible for a special program the school will spend more on them than a "regular student".

I am disgusted that the school district would put this out there without an explanation of what the terms mean. But I guess if your citizens don't check then government agencies can do whatever they want.

 

[hkem1]

WOW

Your post is propaganda at it's best it uses the term "exceptional students" but it does not tell you what Florida considers an "exceptional student".

According to Florida Title XLVIII - K-20 Education Code an exceptional student is defined as "The term "exceptional student" means any student who has been determined eligible for a special program in accordance with rules of the State Board of Education. The term includes students who are gifted and students with disabilities who are mentally handicapped, speech and language impaired, deaf or hard of hearing, visually impaired, dual sensory impaired, physically impaired, emotionally handicapped, specific learning disabled, hospital and homebound, autistic, developmentally delayed children, ages birth through 5 years, or children with established conditions, ages birth through 2 years, with established conditions that are identified in State Board of Education rules pursuant to s.1003.21(1)(e)."

So of course if an exceptional student is one who is eligible for a special program the school will spend more on them than a "regular student".

I am disgusted that the school district would put this out there without an explanation of what the terms mean. But I guess if your citizens don't check then government agencies can do whatever they want.

I want to clear up something in my previous post that I don't think I made clear and should have.

Florida is one of 16 states that includes gifted students in the exceptional students category. I support that classification because it keeps funding stable and makes sure that funding continues for gifted programs just as it would for disabled students.

Why I dislike the use of that chart is that I think some people might be confused by the term "exceptional" and take that to mean only gifted when in reality (I will try to find the numbers) gifted is only a small part of that overall program.

The state spent 4.2 billion dollars on exceptional students during the 2007-2008 school year 3.6 billion came from local and state funding and 609 million came from federal funding. Of that 4.2 billion dollars 276 million or approximately 6% was spent on gifted students funding.

 

[WCTA]

I want to clear up something in my previous post that I don't think I made clear and should have.

Florida is one of 16 states that includes gifted students in the exceptional students category. I support that classification because it keeps funding stable and makes sure that funding continues for gifted programs just as it would for disabled students.

Why I dislike the use of that chart is that I think some people might be confused by the term "exceptional" and take that to mean only gifted when in reality (I will try to find the numbers) gifted is only a small part of that overall program.

The state spent 4.2 billion dollars on exceptional students during the 2007-2008 school year 3.6 billion came from local and state funding and 609 million came from federal funding. Of that 4.2 billion dollars 276 million or approximately 6% was spent on gifted students funding.

This discussion has been conducted at a very high level of understanding by those that have participated. As a former School Board member I understand the "exceptional classification" and am sure that Mark does as well.

I believe the chart (straight from the Fla. DOE website) is more revealing and raises many questions concerning the comparisons to surrounding counties, where their dollars are spent in those same classifications, and what they indicate about the focus of education in the WCSD.

Gifted students would be a part of the average and would provide some insight into emphasis on educational opportunities for those identified as "gifted".

Taking your 276 million spent state wide on "gifted students" would mean that the state wide average for each of the 67 school district would be 4.1 million per district on gifted programs

 

[hkem1]

Sorry

Melscuba,

I think obviously this thread has gotten way off topic with that being partly my fault. The FCAT and SAT scores for South Walton are well below what they need to be and you are correct to be concerned with them. As other posters have said there are things the school is doing to try to raise them such as FCAT focus but as the board member said programs that improve FCAT scores don't highten the rigor of the curriculum and don't prepare students for college. I think the only way you can decide if this school is right for your children is if you visit it and talk to the teachers and students and parents that are at the school. For me personally I did not believe the rigor was high enough to adaquetely prepare me for college.

I will say that the parent involvement at South Walton is a big strength and the school as a whole is undoubtedly improving. There are also many smart students who want the school to improve. So I guess its just about what the parent wants for the students education because schools are definetly not one size fits all.

Thank you and sorry for taking the thread off topic
hkem1

 

[hkem1]

This discussion has been conducted at a very high level of understanding by those that have participated. As a former School Board member I understand the "exceptional classification" and am sure that Mark does as well.

I believe the chart (straight from the Fla. DOE website) is more revealing and raises many questions concerning the comparisons to surrounding counties, where their dollars are spent in those same classifications, and what they indicate about the focus of education in the WCSD.

Gifted students would be a part of the average and would provide some insight into emphasis on educational opportunities for those identified as "gifted".

Taking your 276 million spent state wide on "gifted students" would mean that the state wide average for each of the 67 school district would be 4.1 million per district on gifted programs

Those are all valid points.

But your 4.1 million dollar average per district as I am sure you understand isn't really true because 44 percent of school funding comes from local county taxes so I would assume their is a large difference (as your chart shows) in what different counties spend on gifted students.

That statement may not be as true here in Florida but I know that in Texas some school districts have a lot more money based on who lives in that particular district.

I greatly appreciate your and marks help on this thread because I am sure your understanding on this is much higher than mine. I just want to try to understand what I am dealing with.

 

[beachmouse]

Are the numbers mean or median? With ESE kids, I really like to see both because there are some extremely high needs kids who can decidedly skew the numbers in terms of average expenditures. (ie. the kid who cannot move below the neck, is only marginally verbal, and requires a full time one on one aide in the classroom might be costing the district $40-$50K per year, but the kid who needs speech therapy three time a week is not a huge cost for the district)