Illegal Immigration

[Alicia Leonard]

They might just ship you back to Valhalla then! ;-)

:shock::shock:

 

[LuciferSam]

They might just ship you back to Valhalla then! ;-)

The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands
To fight the horde, singing and crying: "Valhalla, I am coming!"

YouTube - Led zeppelin - immigrant song

 

[LuciferSam]

I would get a spray tan for this, Lou.

We'll kidnap Lou Dobbs and force him to attend. We'll need a straitjacket and thorazine. Speaking of tans, why not have Panama Jack as the sponsor? He's legal (I think)

 

[Just Curious]

There are people on this thread with all different beliefs and perspectives. That being said, can we all agree that illegal immigration is a problem?

I doubt that I will get 100% agreement with that question, but maybe I'll be surprised.

If you agree that it is a problem, and you don't agree with what Arizona is doing, what is your solution?

I don't know the answer, but most of you are smarter than I, and I am interested in real answers. I'm not against immigration; I just think that it should be done legally. Yes, and I too come from immigrants (I think we all do).

 

[Andy A]

There are people on this thread with all different beliefs and perspectives. That being said, can we all agree that illegal immigration is a problem?

I doubt that I will get 100% agreement with that question, but maybe I'll be surprised.

If you agree that it is a problem, and you don't agree with what Arizona is doing, what is your solution?

I don't know the answer, but most of you are smarter than I, and I am interested in real answers. I'm not against immigration; I just think that it should be done legally. Yes, and I too come from immigrants (I think we all do).

This is the first semblance of common sense I've seen on this ridiculous thread. Anyone who thinks we don't have an immigration problem has their head stuck where the sun don't shine. We are a nation of laws but somehow because they might be difficult or unsavory to enforce, we have forgotten that or won't accept it, one of the two. Arizona has reacted because the federal government will not. Their citizens on the border have been killed and harassed. They want something done and rightly so. The law, as passed by a duly seated legislature and signed by a duly elected governor of a state, is obviously more to bring attention and action, at the federal level, to a situation that is rapidly getting out of hand...people streaming across our borders ILLEGALLY in unprecedented numbers. Whether they are brown, pink, white or polka dot doesn't matter. Our immigration law is being flounted in our faces. If you don't like our laws, petition our elected officials to change them. If they don't throw them out! To correct the situation start by sealing our borders in any manner necessary. Then correct our laws if need be and deal with illegal immigrants in a manner deemed necessary by our elected officials.

 

[30ashopper]

Has anyone actually read the law? Contrary to the talk, it is a reasonable, limited, carefully-crafted measure designed to help law enforcement deal with a serious problem in Arizona. Its authors anticipated criticism and went to great lengths to make sure it is constitutional and will hold up in court. It is the criticism of the law that is over the top, not the law itself.​

The law requires police to check with federal authorities on a person's immigration status, if officers have stopped that person for some legitimate reason and come to suspect that he or she might be in the U.S. illegally. The heart of the law is this provision: "For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency…where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person…"​

Critics have focused on the term "reasonable suspicion" to suggest that the law would give police the power to pick anyone out of a crowd for any reason and force them to prove they are in the U.S. legally. Some foresee mass civil rights violations targeting Hispanics.​

What fewer people have noticed is the phrase "lawful contact," which defines what must be going on before police even think about checking immigration status. "That means the officer is already engaged in some detention of an individual because he's violated some other law," says Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri Kansas City Law School professor who helped draft the measure. "The most likely context where this law would come into play is a traffic stop."​

As far as "reasonable suspicion" is concerned, there is a great deal of case law dealing with the idea, but in immigration matters, it means a combination of circumstances that, taken together, cause the officer to suspect lawbreaking. It's not race -- Arizona's new law specifically says race and ethnicity cannot be the sole factors in determining a reasonable suspicion.​

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/Byron-York/A-carefully-crafted-immigration-law-in-Arizona-92136104.html#ixzz0mJpL5UsT
​

 

[LuciferSam]

NYT: Calls for boycott follow Ariz. immigration law - The New York Times- msnbc.com

 

[30ashopper]

Ugh, could you shrink that down? Big pictures always ruin the formatting.

update - thanks Lucifer!

 

[Geo]

I am at a point in my life that I don't accept talking points as common sense.

I believed for a long time that illegal immigration is a problem. But now I realize that I don't personally know why it's a problem-only that it is. So rather than having my head where the sun doesn't shine I would like to become educated.

Can someone pls tell me why illegal immigration is a problem. No rhetoric please (because there are laws that need to be followed, because it threatens our freedom, because it makes us unsafe- never forget 9-11, etc etc).

Why is this a problem?

Why is this high up on our list of issues?

I think even folks who know it is a problem stand to benefit from this exercise.

 

[LuciferSam]

I am at a point in my life that I don't accept talking points as common sense.

I believed for a long time that illegal immigration is a problem. But now I realize that I don't personally know why it's a problem-only that it is. So rather than having my head where the sun doesn't shine I would like to become educated.

Can someone pls tell me why illegal immigration is a problem. No rhetoric please (because there are laws that need to be followed, because it threatens our freedom, because it makes us unsafe- never forget 9-11, etc etc).

Why is this a problem?

Why is this high up on our list of issues?

I think even folks who know it is a problem stand to benefit from this exercise.

The freedom, for which real brave folks from the heartland and their fathers throughout history when the hardships came and those who fought and sacrificed to keep those of us safe by the establishment of secure boundaries upon which this great nation of ours constantly struggles to provide for law abiding citizens who came to this country through legal means and the debt of gratitude and obligation we owe them in fairness to the ancestors instead of allowing her laws to be violated in the name of anarchy which has plagued so many other countries and led to the downfall of the civilizations upon which their governments show no pride and respect for the soil upon which the real Americans base their values.