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Mosquito Control wants to spend $1.2 million for a new poison spray plane

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Florida Girl, if there was a viable solution other than toxic pesticides, would you be willing to use it? It's a simple question.

We are weighing the issues very carefully, that's why this discussion is happening. And, yes, we need opinions from all sides: pro, con, alternatives & those answers that fall somewhere in between.

Man, as you put it, did not create this world that we live on. We are to be stewards of it, not controlling it for our own exploitation only. There are natural laws that we (humans, plants, other animals, etc.) are governed by that we cannot overcome. By meddling with those natural laws, we are at risk for even larger, more dangerous issues than just getting rid of mosquitoes and dog flies. We all know about life cycles, food chains, ecosystems, etc.... simple biology. In those basic classes we were also taught that if you remove even the smallest of creatures from those cycles, you create a turmoil that is virtually impossible to reverse. Do you have answers to those issues in regards to the delicate ecosystems that our choices as humans have completely disregarded? Do you feel no responsibility as a steward of the area that you grew up in and love so dearly?

Your love for this area is obvious. Your love for your father is even more obvious. Not knowing him, I know through you that he was a man who was working to provide the best answers that he knew of in his time. We know more now. We understand what our actions as humans do to the rest of the world. We still have a chance to learn to live more harmoniously on this planet instead of slowly destroying it. What if, in your dad's lifetime, he had realized this, after all that he had learned previously? What if he had changed his mind? Would it have changed yours? No one is attacking your dad's legacy. Your passion is honorable.

Thanks.:D

And for everyone, in regards to the food chain, consider this. We are at the top of it. If one species at the bottom is knocked out, everything from there on up is affected, including us. But if we are knocked out, then everything below us simply heals. I am not promoting the extinction of the human race. What I am saying is that we need to eat a bit of humble pie and figure it all out before the problems that we are creating, bite us in the a$$ to the point that we are endangered or extinct.

Of course I?d be willing to try a new viable solution to pesticides! Do you have one?

I believe strongly we are to be stewards of this planet, understanding our brief existence here, and yes, I take my responsibilities seriously. Where we apparently disagree is whether we should leave well enough alone, or actively manage the earth. I believe we are a vital part of the ?natural law?, and our intellect should be used to create, manage, and repair the earth. I believe that leaving well enough alone is not a wise option, and leads to a disastrous end. We should have the advantage of previous generation?s knowledge, compiled with our own. I believe it to be very foolish to throw out our history, we should learn from it. Dad was of strong moral character, and didn?t change easily. He lived in harmony with this planet, he MANAGED what he had control over, and you enjoy the rewards of that today. The part you seem to miss is when one part of nature becomes out of balance with the rest. It is our responsibility to maintain the balance.
 
This thread could go on indefinitely discussing examples of quackery, snake charming and the likes. The fact remains though that the
naysayers to spraying can not, or ever will be able to prove that spraying for dog flies with Dibrom Naled will not ever adversely affect the environment or humans in the long term.

Although I am not totally against occassionally spraying if the population of dog flies becomes so overwhelming that it inhibits enjoyment of the area, I think there are ways to maintain the population without consistent spraying, that are less toxic to humans and other fauna.
Ask my 99 year grandfather and he will tell you everything in moderation is one of the keys to his longevity, as well as a sense of humor. :biggrin:

I'd really like to see this thread get back to the issue at hand.
 
Of course I?d be willing to try a new viable solution to pesticides! Do you have one?

I believe strongly we are to be stewards of this planet, understanding our brief existence here, and yes, I take my responsibilities seriously. Where we apparently disagree is whether we should leave well enough alone, or actively manage the earth. I believe we are a vital part of the ?natural law?, and our intellect should be used to create, manage, and repair the earth. I believe that leaving well enough alone is not a wise option, and leads to a disastrous end. We should have the advantage of previous generation?s knowledge, compiled with our own. I believe it to be very foolish to throw out our history, we should learn from it. Dad was of strong moral character, and didn?t change easily. He lived in harmony with this planet, he MANAGED what he had control over, and you enjoy the rewards of that today. The part you seem to miss is when one part of nature becomes out of balance with the rest. It is our responsibility to maintain the balance.

I am willing to work with others to find one.

I respect you, Florida Girl, totally. The only point I disagree about is the fact that human behaviour and misuse of our position in the natural cycle is the main cause for the problem of "one part of nature" becoming "out of balance with the rest." I am not blaming your dad or anyone else. Yes, he was a hard working man. Yes, I do enjoy the fruits of his labour. I am simply saying let's find a way to viably fix it without doing more harm, so that our descendants can enjoy the fruit of our labours.
 
Those aren't exceptional cases. I get the FDA updates on drug recalls and warnings on an almost daily, sometimes more than once a day, basis. Don't play that card, as it's completely untrue. You are using a blanket statement about herbs & supplements making them all seem unsafe while your precious drugs are any more safe.

BTW, I prefer a compounding pharmacy when a prescription is truly needed because Heather is awesome! She will tailor the prescription to exactly what is needed, not the "latest & greatest" drug on the market. That, my friend, stinks of big money and patents of the newest "sexy" drug. Maybe I need some of those pills for restless leg syndrome, as it is now a problem that deserves a drug, instead of the fact that I need to learn how to chill the hell out when I'm trying to go to sleep!

Skunky, dangit!:clap_1: You almost made me feel sorry for you! :blink:

You are saying that I am trying to make you feel bad in regards to your education and where you have chosen to be in your life in regards to career choice, etc. I am not. However, you are willing to knock my education and the education of others on this board. I, too, have studied my rear-end off and will continue to do so for as long as I can, including degrees in natural health that are forthcoming.

Because you are an MD, and an intelligent one at that, your opinion can make people think. You should express your views but at the same time so should the rest of us. If I was allowed to run my mouth without your input, it would be insane, as my opinion is just one facet of the whole picture.

You use the word quackery a ton. Some of the very things you are screaming "Quack! Quack Quack!" about, I have found therapeutic relief throught those techniques. And vice versa, some of the things that I think are pure quackery, you hold in high esteem. It's up to each individual to find out what works for their personal health. And whether it's allopathic or holistic, there are a lot of benefits and a lot of cautions to be aware of with BOTH SIDES. Both are viable and both can be full of s***. It's up to the patient/consumer to take personal responsibilty for their health care. It's not my decision or yours, but theirs.

Have a wonderful evening! I am off to spend some well-needed time with my 3 amazing munchkins!


What about vioxx, phen fen, etc? Know where you can score some, because I don't. Of course there are exceptional cases, but all in all, prescription drugs are efficacious if used judiciously. I am no defender of big pharma;I try like hell to write Rx's for stuff on the $4 Wal-Mart formulary, generic if that isn't an option, and then move on to the 'latest and greatest'.

I think maybe our mutual concepts of what is meant by prevention differ. For kids it is growth, development, screening and safety...basically laying a sturdy foundation for them to move on through adolesence and adulthood. Adults are screened for diseases according to well thought out schedules and office visits allow for broader discussions in other areas. Sorry to hear you might think allopaths don't measure up:(

So it makes me feel really dumb now, after ten years of sacrifice, sleepless nights, 80 hour work weeks, more exams than I care to remember (and more to come!:bang: ), student loans of about $100,000 coming due to know what a dopey guild I have joined. I could have probably had more credibility in the eyes of many had I patronized this fine institution What about vioxx, phen fen, etc? Know where you can score some, because I don't. Of course there are exceptional cases, but all in all, prescription drugs are efficacious if used judiciously. I am no defender of big pharma;I try like hell to write Rx's for stuff on the $4 Wal-Mart formulary, generic if that isn't an option, and then move on to the 'latest and greatest'.

I think maybe our mutual concepts of what is meant by prevention differ. For kids it is growth, development, screening and safety...basically laying a sturdy foundation for them to move on through adolesence and adulthood. Adults are screened for diseases according to well thought out schedules and office visits allow for broader discussions in other areas. Sorry to hear you might think allopaths don't measure up:(

So it makes me feel really dumb now, after ten years of sacrifice, sleepless nights, 80 hour work weeks, more exams than I care to remember (and more to come!:bang: ), student loans of about $100,000 coming due to know what a dopey guild I have joined. I could have probably had more credibility in the eyes of many had I patronized this fine institution http://www.gcnm.com/
 
Hello to those on the "Issue at Hand"

I've been catching up on the posts since I visited last evening. Just a few comments--

"Although we all individually face problems with hazardous pesticides, pesticides are not principally a personal problem.

Pesticides are hazardous to human health and the environment, create resistant pest populations, contribute to declining crop yields, undermine local and global food security and threaten agricultural biodiversity. Yet these pervasive chemicals are promoted by multinational corporations, public relations firms, and even schools and the government agencies that are supposed to protect our families, workers and the environment. Pesticides are a more than $35 billion a year industry. Dealing with pesticides requires that we all work together to change pest management practices and policies." (Taken from Pesticide Action Network of North America)

The chemical companies formulate their poisons and submit the name of the "cide" or killing agent along with 99% inert ingredients being non-disclosed. These inert ingredients have for many years been considered trade secrets; however, activist groups have made headway on full disclosure, especially since these inerts are the chemicals which drive the poison into the mitochondria of the cell. We do have a right to know what comprises the total killing package. Here's more on inerts:

http://www.safe2use.com/poisons-pesticides/inerts/cox-inerts.htm

For those of you on the fence, please spend a few sobering minutes on a site which lists those who have been killed by pesticides-- even commercial head lice products. (t's sold so it's safe---NOT! It's commonly used, so it's safe--NOT!)

A page dedicated to the martyrs of PESTICIDE POISONING:
http://www.safe2use.com/poisons-pesticides/inerts/cox-inerts.htm

They also offer a list of symptoms of pesticide poisoning.

http://www.pesticide.org/factsheets.html
"Mosquito control strategies that rely on pesticides to kill adult mosquitoes are currently recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as an "important component of any integrated mosquito management program."(3) However, NCAP believes such spraying is inefficient and uses toxic chemicals that pose hazards for our health and the health of the environment. Successful management of West Nile virus requires that communities learn how to control mosquito populations by reducing breeding habitats and learn how to protect themselves from mosquito bites. Strategies aimed at these two measures will ensure that the use of pesticides does not add to the problems caused by this disease."

If you really want to sink your teeth into this issue, order a copy of "Our Children's Toxic Legacy...How Science and Law Fail to Protect Us from Pesticides." by John Wargo, the Director of The Children's Center for Environmental Health at Yale University. He has testified in Congress and been an adviser to senior environmental policymakers in the EPA, the White House and UN WHO.

Here's an interesting bit of info on one of the tangents:

Quack- back in the 1500's (Middle Ages) the physicians of the day were using lead, arsenic, mercury and other highly-toxic substances in the treatment of disease. The herbalists were utterly aghast at the use of mercury (quicksilver) and coined the term "quacksilvers" for those who used these poisons on humans. Isn't it interesting how the pendulum swings, physicians/quacks to herbalists/quacks.......hmmmmm.:idontno:
 
I never said chiropracters were quacks, so please don't put words in my mouth.

I know you never said chiropractors are quacks. You missed my point.

I used that example to illustrate that those who were once thought to be quacks now have credibility. The same can apply with those you find to be quacks right now, like the people who have found aspertame to be toxic.

For all I know, you could be a quack! You may not be a doctor at all, you just pretend to be one on the internet. I have no proof that you really are a doctor, just like you have no proof that those people's testimonies about Aspertame are true.
I encourage people with chronic pain to patronize them, and it makes them feel better, and manipulation to ease pain MAKES SENSE! Now, there are some chiropracters who claim to be able to cure everything from acne to heart disease from spinal manipulation. This is not a heresay assertion-Rapunz goes to chiropractors and one that she went to gave her a diagram of the spine with a breakdown of afflictions that manifested as a result of poor spinal alignment at various vertebral levels. Now, if a DC claims he/she can lower your cholesterol because L3 is a little too lordotic relative to L2, they are indeed participating in quackery! Do you agree?

I would research it first.

All I am saying is that many people make many dubious claims, often in the name of making a buck, and desperate consumers gobble it up out of fear or ignorance.
It works the other way, too. Desperate consumers gobble up prescription meds out of fear and ignorance because they have been socially conditioned to believe that the sun rises and sets on a doctor's opinion and there are no alternatives.

No good studies exist that suggest aspartame is a health threat,

But there are plenty of personal testimonies which indicate otherwise. Funny how people stopped using aspertame and their symptoms went away. They don't need a study to spell that out for them. They themselves are the study.

but there are plenty of people who will gin-up the hysteria and then try to sell you some form of worthless 'kit' to cleanse yourself of aspartame. A fool and their money should be allowed to part, but the desperate, misinformed (and oft taken advantage of) people parting with money for no good reason makes me sick.
lol, I feel that way about health insurance.
 
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