My Attempt to Clear up Immigration Misinformation

[Geo]

Hi Murray,
I'm saying if our government really wants to address these problems they should go at them directly.

If drug violence in border states is an issue then legalize the product they are fighting over.

If jobs lost to illegals is the issue then go after the businesses who employ them. Make it a serious offense and enforce it.

 

[scooterbug44]

I call BS on the whole "cheap illegal workers are taking our jobs" thing.

While price is a factor is some cases, most of the time it has far more to do with who will actually show up and get the job done.

 

[Em]

If jobs lost to illegals is the issue then go after the businesses who employ them. Make it a serious offense and enforce it.

So you want government to be able to penalize private business for hiring illegals, but you don't want government to penalize illegals being here illegally? Doesn't that make us citizens act more like law enforcement, much like a police state? What training should businesses to go to in order to recognize counterfeit documents? Private business owners should not be responsible for determining weather one is in the US legally. What happens if an illegal goes to a business to get a job and the employer says, "You don't have a green card? You are illegally. Wait here. I'm calling the police."

The cops show up, but don't have the authority to send the illegal back to his or her country of origin, so what next? The illegal is still here. Problem is still not solved. They will still show up for other jobs until someone is willing to hire them at a rate less than they would have to pay for legals.

 

[Em]

scooterbug. I understand what you are saying but I disagree. Let's use the analogy of Walmart competing with mom and pops. As long as Walmart is willing and able to sell goods for half the price of mom and pop competitors, Walmart will always be monetarily successful and mom and pops near Walmart will suffer as many (not all) of their customers buy more and more from Walmart.

Illegal workers, much like Walmart, will undercut others. Illegals will work for cash and don't care so much about benefits like health insurance paid for by employers. Employers can save money by not paying gov't FICA. Also, employers don't have to pay benefits to illegals.

The question is, What would an employer have to pay an American to do a job that an illegal is doing? If employers did not hire illegals, the price of many things from entree's at restaurants to the price to build a home, would increase greatly, just as people would have much less money if they had to buy all their goods at mom and pops rather than big discount stores like Walmart.

 

[scooterbug44]

That comment was directed at ray - IME a large part of the reason there are so many "mexicans" at Walton County construction sites is that they actually show up for work - sober.

I in no way support hiring illegals and think that companies who do so should be penalized, but I think far too often anyone "brown" gets blamed for things.

 

[Geo]

I don't personally care if illegal Mexican workers fill jobs most people don't want. But many people evidently do as they cited this as a reason why they were for the first iteration of the AZ immigration law.

I never said I don't want government going after the illegals. I said I don't want lawmakers passing laws to do it like the first iteration of AZ's reform.

Here's an analogy- how do we effectively deal with underage drinking/smoking? We make it difficult for business owners and employees who serve them/sell to them. Bouncers and convenience store clerks spot fake ids all the time and they do it because they don't want to get busted serving/selling to underage patrons.

I believe it
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[30ashopper]

So you want government to be able to penalize private business for hiring illegals, but you don't want government to penalize illegals being here illegally? Doesn't that make us citizens act more like law enforcement, much like a police state? What training should businesses to go to in order to recognize counterfeit documents? Private business owners should not be responsible for determining weather one is in the US legally. What happens if an illegal goes to a business to get a job and the employer says, "You don't have a green card? You are illegally. Wait here. I'm calling the police."

The cops show up, but don't have the authority to send the illegal back to his or her country of origin, so what next? The illegal is still here. Problem is still not solved. They will still show up for other jobs until someone is willing to hire them at a rate less than they would have to pay for legals.

I agree, that's the easy way out, and doesn't solve the core problem of border security. I'm fine with fining businesses that employ illegals, but we also need the federal government to do one of the very few jobs it's actually tasked to do - secure our borders.

 

[futurebeachbum]

I think that it is unfortunate that the politicians in Arizona crafted the initial bill so poorly. It certainly smacked of severe Constitutional issues. The recrafted one seems perfectly acceptable to me however.

It is amazing to me that people can brazenly violate our immigration laws and then stage protests when we discuss enforcing those laws. The voting public has clearly indicated to the politicians in DC that they want this fixed.

The rub is that the fix that the public wants is not the fix that our politicians (and their masters) want.

This issue, more than any other, demonstrates to me the wide gulf that exists between the politicos and the public.

It seems to be a non-partisan gap. Both Republicans and Democrats seem bound and determined to ignore the desires of the public in this matter.

 

[scooterbug44]

To be Devil's advocate, what happens if we do go ahead and completely secure our border with Mexico.

Do they then just come in through Canada - aka the longest unsecured border in the world?

 

[Arkiehawg]

To be Devil's advocate, what happens if we do go ahead and completely secure our border with Mexico.

Do they then just come in through Canada - aka the longest unsecured border in the world?

No, they will hop in their six-pack boats and head to Florida to seek assylum like the Haitians and Cubans...


quite frankly, the mexicans probably have more justification for assylum now than either the Cubans or Haitians do to the cartel wars....