Nationally, nearly half of 2006 buyers are upside down

[hillsatthebeach]

WaterSound Beach lots

At least in my buyers case the main motivations for purchasing one of those lots for $315k were size, build out, free beach club membership and 2 years dues paid. The beach club and the build outs are still a major part of the buying process in WaterSound right now and because we are dealing with mostly end users they are not willing to take the chance that St Joe may or may not enforce build outs and may or may not allow access to the club at some point. I wish the beach club wasn't such an issue right now because it it hurting a lot of my sellers being able to sell if they don't have the beach club but Joe doesn't seem to be budging when it comes to this issue. I have been on both side of this equation and I can understand both sides so it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[AAbsolute]

MissCritter:

Yes, I am also of the opinion that it would be difficult to enforce the build-outs; however, it's still a risk and Joe probably knows they can charge extra for that risk. I wouldn't pay the premium, but I guess others have.

Little Fish

Look a little deeper into the HUD 1's and you'll see that there are quite a number of incentives that JOE has been offering that make the public record look different than it really is. It's not just build out's. When a developer gives extended relief on costs that are fixed for existing owners some might consider it cash back at closing.

I should add that I didn't finish conventional high school and I may be looking at this a little to rudimentary.

 

[AAbsolute]

You know the answer to the big question...

At least in my buyers case the main motivations for purchasing one of those lots for $315k were size, build out, free beach club membership and 2 years dues paid. The beach club and the build outs are still a major part of the buying process in WaterSound right now and because we are dealing with mostly end users they are not willing to take the chance that St Joe may or may not enforce build outs and may or may not allow access to the club at some point. I wish the beach club wasn't such an issue right now because it it hurting a lot of my sellers being able to sell if they don't have the beach club but Joe doesn't seem to be budging when it comes to this issue. I have been on both side of this equation and I can understand both sides so it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Hills, You were there in '05 when I used to boom up potential buyers for JOE with my bucket truck so they could assess their views before entering the lottery. What did JOE promise or guarantee these folks in Phase IV who were lined up to buy lots at 980,000 to 1,032,000 right next to these for 315,000? People want to know....

 

[AAbsolute]

:shock:I am uncertain what financial capacity JOE actually has as so much of the value of the company is in real estate, in the ability of JOE to fully transition from manufacturing/agri and bleat bleat bleat. Regardless, how JOE uses that capacity, or lack thereof, is proved in their pudding.

Did you read JOE's most recent quarterly report? It seems they have completely eliminated all debt from their books. I'd say that put's them in a pretty strong position to continue to crush all other developers in this region.

I would ask what this lot lowering does to your rent=mortgage valuations. It would seem to favor the Lessee and, in turn, the Lessor of a newly built property on the less expensive lots.

I was fortunate in that for some reason I got my lot at $300,000 less than the original price set by JOE. I'd say that I share in some of their advantage. Like I said before, I'm scared to death to buy property for more than its rental capacity.

 

[fisher]

Fisher:

I've noted the same regarding Joe lots selling at prices higher than close comparables. One reason why some buyers might pay higher prices could have everything to do with longer build-out dates relative to current listings.

Little Fish

Could be that the Joe agents are feeding buyers that line. However, I don't think the build out dates will ever, ever be enforced in WC or WS.

 

[AAbsolute]

I thought the consensus on a related thread is that it would be very difficult for those could be enforced.

I thought we were talking about Watercolor in the previous thread. Maybe in Watersound it is not to late for the developer to uniformly enforce the build out Memorandums which might give them a better chance at law.

Until now you would have to be lucky like say, FlyForFun, in order to have JOE force you on the issue. Very few others have been faced with the prospect.

 

[TheSheep]

This is not an assumption, it's a fact. People who bought a lot for 950,000 from JOE in '05 next to a lot sold by JOE in '08 for 1/3 the price are going to have to bring hundreds of thousands of dollars to their loan renewals or post other personal property equal to hundreds of thousands of dollars which will be locked down as security.

I know there are about 20 vacant lots JOE sold in '05 adjacent to these new sales that are in this boat. I don't blame JOE. It is the problem of those who paid $950,000. I doubt anyone at JOE ever really guaranteed these folks anything. Such is life.

Don't blame JOE? Caveat Emptor? Is it not a lie to withhold historical fact? What answers were given when lot buyers asked "Will JOE ever become our competitor, the root of a severe devaluation of our land?

There is larceny in the hearts on both sides of the buy-sell equation with JOE. One ignobleness in which we refuse to partake so I can bleat with no hypocrisy attached. :angry:

 

[TheSheep]

:shock:I am uncertain what financial capacity JOE actually has as so much of the value of the company is in real estate, in the ability of JOE to fully transition from manufacturing/agri and bleat bleat bleat. Regardless, how JOE uses that capacity, or lack thereof, is proved in their pudding.

Did you read JOE's most recent quarterly report? It seems they have completely eliminated all debt from their books. I'd say that put's them in a pretty strong position to continue to crush all other developers in this region.

The elimination of debt does not make JOE a cash rich company. If they did not require cash, then why drop prices to generate cash flow when the end result is the downgrading of their owned assets.

I would ask what this lot lowering does to your rent=mortgage valuations. It would seem to favor the Lessee and, in turn, the Lessor of a newly built property on the less expensive lots.

I was fortunate in that for some reason I got my lot at $300,000 less than the original price set by JOE. I'd say that I share in some of their advantage. Like I said before, I'm scared to death to buy property for more than its rental capacity.

If you are not a land banker, indeed you should be.

 

[SHELLY]

Did you read JOE's most recent quarterly report? It seems they have completely eliminated all debt from their books. I'd say that put's them in a pretty strong position to continue to crush all other developers in this region.

Today the CNBC Market Bozo (aka Cramer) had this to say about JOE:

St. Joe [JOE 37.23 -0.04 (-0.11%) ]: The largest individual private landowner in Florida is heavily exposed to what Cramer said would be one of the last real estate markets to recover. For that reason, he said this stock probably won’t be worth buying for three to five years.

 

[TheSheep]

Today the CNBC Market Bozo (aka Cramer) had this to say about JOE:

St. Joe [JOE 37.23 -0.04 (-0.11%) ]: The largest individual private landowner in Florida is heavily exposed to what Cramer said would be one of the last real estate markets to recover. For that reason, he said this stock probably won?t be worth buying for three to five years.

Anyone who pushes out prognostications 36 to 60 months is a fool looking for fool's to report their foolish prognostications. If the shoe fits......