Obama Took a Stand This Week

[MrMentalFitness]

By the way, I'd like to let everyone know there's good news!

The good news is we are each with our hands on the wheel of our own life and can determine our own individual course toward a magnificent destiny.

Screw the politicians.

You can still be a hero in your own life.

 

[idlewind]

The Ryan plan is a decent start but falls short of the mark.
Obama does not have a clue and the Democrats in congress are living in fantasyland.

What is the true danger? Interest rates. At present we have historically low interest rates which keeps the 14 trillion dollar debt somewhat manageable. But look what happens to the federal debt if rates go to 10%, which is certainly within reason. The numbers are unsustainable.

So how do we get out of the mess we have created?
1. Return spending levels to 2008.
2. Pass the medicare reform and look at Social Security.
3. End the wars and bring our troops back to the US from foreign bases/ cut foreign aid.
4. Reform the tax code to close loopholes for individuals and corporations and raise revenue.

These measures are a start towards what we must do- cut the debt back. But I doubt either party has the political will to do anything but window dressing for their bases.

 

[futurebeachbum]

Its interesting how much of the tax rhetoric (particularly from the left) revolves around class warfare. According to this article "Taxes and the rich: How much do they pay now?" in the CSM :

To put it in numbers, according to the analysis, the top 1 percent of earners account for 20.3 percent of total personal income in the United States and pay 21.5 percent of all federal and state taxes. The middle 20 percent of households earn 11.6 percent of US income and pay 10.3 percent of taxes. The lowest 20 percent account for just 3.5 percent of income, and pay 2 percent of all taxes.

So the top 1% of earners are already paying more than their proportionate share of the tax burden.

I often hear people saying that they would be willing to pay more taxes if the government would use it to pay off the debt and reduce spending. I find myself agreeing with them and I just say to myself "That would work, I'll just put off buying a new car, eat out less often, cut back on charitable contributions, etc..."

That's when I realize what raising taxes would do to a struggling economy.

 

[AndrewG]

Futurebeachbum,

I think most people would agree. The problem is THEY WONT STOP SPENDING. There's a reason Progressives/Democrats have earned the TAX & SPEND trademark logo. Instead of paying down the debt they will use it to spend more. They will go after your 401k, create a VAT, get rid of the interest mortgage deduction and accuse you of being unpatriotic if you complain, anything to keep the money flowing. It's corruption at its worst.

 

[Matt J]

FBB, that would make sense if they actually raised taxes enough to warrant not paying a car note each month, that's a much bigger chunk than most people are talking about.

 

[Geo]

For the record- I don't condone the out of control spending we've seen from BOTH parties. Bush and Obama, dems and republicans share the blame. My central point is that taxes are near historic lows and rather than readjusting them to reasonable levels (e.g. Clinton levels) to make a big difference, republicans keep a straight face and propose making up for it on the backs of those struggling the most.

My

 

[idlewind]

For the record- I don't condone the out of control spending we've seen from BOTH parties. Bush and Obama, dems and republicans share the blame. My central point is that taxes are near historic lows and rather than readjusting them to reasonable levels (e.g. Clinton levels) to make a big difference, republicans keep a straight face and propose making up for it on the backs of those struggling the most.

My

As has been pointed out in another post, each group is paying close to their fair share. What needs to be adjusted is not the nominal rates, but the actual rates. Close loopholes and move the process towards a flat tax.
The class warfare statements of liberals drive conservatives crazy and guarantee their opposition. True tax reform must be based on fairness and collecting the maximum income possible without harming the economy.

 

[futurebeachbum]

FBB, that would make sense if they actually raised taxes enough to warrant not paying a car note each month, that's a much bigger chunk than most people are talking about.

Are you saying that people won't adjust their spending habits if their taxes go up? Will they just not put as much in savings? Will they borrow more to support their lifestyle?

 

[TNJed]

All of these economic problems aren't math problems, they're philosophical. "Right or left" math isn't needed; a complete paradigm shift is. All of these problems are not problems in and of themselves, they are symptoms of a disease. That disease is Fractional Reserve Banking and fiat currency. Paper is paper, money is money. I imagine some of you are tired of hearing me say this, probably roll your eyes at my posts. But I tire of people arguing over the radio station when the bus has gone over the cliff. If you don't get that, you are wasting your time by trying to fix something which never worked properly. Fiat currency. End the Fed, take your lumps and rebuild the future, not "win the future."

All the arguments on "both sides" come from a genuine concern for our families and neighbors. It just saddens me that both will be proven wrong in the end. There is no fixing this. Fiat currency doesn't gain value once it loses it. It is an inherent debt spiral like water circling the drain. Faster and faster it will move as the end comes. These aren't random esoteric comments. You can find truth in nature and simplicity.

I realize I cannot raise my arms and hold back the coming economic tsunami. What I can do is explain to the people rushing into low tide and scooping up all the "free" fish left behind, that they need to run! Yes it will take more time to play out than my tsunami analogy, but be thankful for that for when the end comes, in any form, it cometh swiftly.

None of us are going to change policy or physics. I suggest you direct some of that passion to preparing yourself and family buy storing your wealth in assets which cannot be printed, counterfeited, taxed or nationalized.

See you on the other side.

 

[idlewind]

All of these economic problems aren't math problems, they're philosophical. "Right or left" math isn't needed; a complete paradigm shift is. All of these problems are not problems in and of themselves, they are symptoms of a disease. That disease is Fractional Reserve Banking and fiat currency. Paper is paper, money is money. I imagine some of you are tired of hearing me say this, probably roll your eyes at my posts. But I tire of people arguing over the radio station when the bus has gone over the cliff. If you don't get that, you are wasting your time by trying to fix something which never worked properly. Fiat currency. End the Fed, take your lumps and rebuild the future, not "win the future."

All the arguments on "both sides" come from a genuine concern for our families and neighbors. It just saddens me that both will be proven wrong in the end. There is no fixing this. Fiat currency doesn't gain value once it loses it. It is an inherent debt spiral like water circling the drain. Faster and faster it will move as the end comes. These aren't random esoteric comments. You can find truth in nature and simplicity.

I realize I cannot raise my arms and hold back the coming economic tsunami. What I can do is explain to the people rushing into low tide and scooping up all the "free" fish left behind, that they need to run! Yes it will take more time to play out than my tsunami analogy, but be thankful for that for when the end comes, in any form, it cometh swiftly.

None of us are going to change policy or physics. I suggest you direct some of that passion to preparing yourself and family buy storing your wealth in assets which cannot be printed, counterfeited, taxed or nationalized.

See you on the other side.

The current economic conditions were created over the last 100 years beginning with the income tax, the creation of the Federal Reserve and the end of the gold standard. The problems will not be fixed in one session of Congress. But we have to start somewhere and cutting spending is a decent 1st step.