• Trouble logging in? Send us a message with your username and/or email address for help.

Property taxes and the HCP

New posts
Thank God, lazin & drinkin for you and those like you who fund most of the county operations. Without you I would suffer without all those services that are provided to me. Seriously, those employees are making so much moneythey should go ahead and just slash their salaries to the bone. Oh hell lets go ahead a lay off half, no wait 3/4 of all these employees, and lets go ahead reduce services. Lets put a stop to parks, and road improvement, public safety, court operations, tax collections and schools, Lets close those extra buildings down and consolidate services. With all that extra money the government is saving we can use it to bail out BP by cleaning up their mess on our beaches. Wow, thanks to you I have seen the light.:sarc:
A property owner, taxpayer and a public employee
 
Thank God, lazin & drinkin for you and those like you who fund most of the county operations. Without you I would suffer without all those services that are provided to me. Seriously, those employees are making so much moneythey should go ahead and just slash their salaries to the bone. Oh hell lets go ahead a lay off half, no wait 3/4 of all these employees, and lets go ahead reduce services. Lets put a stop to parks, and road improvement, public safety, court operations, tax collections and schools, Lets close those extra buildings down and consolidate services. With all that extra money the government is saving we can use it to bail out BP by cleaning up their mess on our beaches. Wow, thanks to you I have seen the light.:sarc:
A property owner, taxpayer and a public employee


About time you caught on.
 
Thank God, lazin & drinkin for you and those like you who fund most of the county operations. Without you I would suffer without all those services that are provided to me. Seriously, those employees are making so much moneythey should go ahead and just slash their salaries to the bone. Oh hell lets go ahead a lay off half, no wait 3/4 of all these employees, and lets go ahead reduce services. Lets put a stop to parks, and road improvement, public safety, court operations, tax collections and schools, Lets close those extra buildings down and consolidate services. With all that extra money the government is saving we can use it to bail out BP by cleaning up their mess on our beaches. Wow, thanks to you I have seen the light.:sarc:
A property owner, taxpayer and a public employee

Better late than never, though it would appear that you have yet to achieve late. Dwindling public resources yields, or should, a need for prioritizing. I have done that my entire life. Walton County and its employees are going to either plan rationally for the new reality or be dragged kicking and screaming into it.

Perhaps taking time out of your life to read a little American history and delving a bit deeper than the trivia of what passes for news reporting would afford you the realization that the tension between government, and by extension its employees, and the rest of us who pay the bulk of its (your) support is by no means a recent development. That tension predates America. It has become a much more pressing problem lately because of the excesses of governments and, like it or not, government employees.

That now terrible symbiosis has used the power of government to pay and promise hugely more than we can afford, and a look at the headlines of the last year or two should tell you that we are approaching a precipice, one that is going to be painful for all of us, government employee and other. California cities are declaring or contemplating bankruptcy in order to repudiate the debts they have incurred to public employees and their health and retirement benefits. They are the canary in the coal mine in this country.

Do you wish to have Walton County renege on its promises to you? It can happen. I do not in any way cast aspersions on or denigrate my fellow citizens who provide the necessary public services you enumerate. I suggest instead that responsible public employees, in their capacity as stewards of the public trust, be aware that constraints are almost certainly coming, constraints painful to both you and me. I ask that you be part of the process of doing more with less, just as those of us without the confiscatory powers of government are doing. I ask that you understand that we expect government to prioritize. Not all pigs are equal, and parks and police are not equivalent functions.

Whether you persist in anger and resentment and thereby remain part of the problem is your choice. We're all in this together, and we want and have a right to expect that you, our employee, help us find solutions.
 
It still seems amazing to me that it is all the fault of the public employees in your eyes. The growth of government, at least by my view is directly related to those that are elected by We the People. You talk about history, it appears that you have forgotten that. Our government has grown under the eyes of the Politicians we have continued to reelect. Term Limits via the polls have not worked, term limits by law have not worked because now you have special interest running government. I can't remember the guys name, but he is out west. His local mayors and town councils don't like him because he won't seek pork barrel projects for his district, but he continues to get reelected. I suppose we need more of those type of politicians. Maybe you should run. As for solutions I haven't seen a reasonable solution you have offered. You have based the problem of government on the employee. I wonder if you had that same view of those employees of the financial institutions who drove these companies into bankruptcy or Rick Scott when he stole from us.
 
The issue is not the employees as much as politicians involving government in every aspect of our lives. Much of the growth in county government has come from a exponential expansion of the county government in our lives. When you pass a huge ordinance in order to address a neighborhood problem you must hire employees to police that. These employees need support to keep up with the myrid paperwork that comes with any government project. Before long you have a huge expense that must continue to justify its existence. Like I have said we need a public debate on exactly what role government will play in our lives and how we will pay for the items we decide are essential.
 
The issue is not the employees as much as politicians involving government in every aspect of our lives. Much of the growth in county government has come from a exponential expansion of the county government in our lives. When you pass a huge ordinance in order to address a neighborhood problem you must hire employees to police that. These employees need support to keep up with the myrid paperwork that comes with any government project. Before long you have a huge expense that must continue to justify its existence. Like I have said we need a public debate on exactly what role government will play in our lives and how we will pay for the items we decide are essential.
Exactly
 
I'm sure many county employees are suffering. My point goes a bit deeper. I'm not sure how many know of the unfunded liability of the taxpayers of the county for county employee health and retirement benefits. Do you? It's presently a very large number, over and above the ongoing expenses being paid now from current revenues. Are you aware that the county has a $39,000,000 bank loan in addition to its bonded indebtedness? Small change compared to what's needed.

County employees receive benefits in health and retirement that are significantly greater than those usually found in the private sector for equivalent positions. The unfortunate reality is that your counterparts outside government do not receive, as a usual practice, anything approaching the employer contributions for family health premiums that you enjoy, for example. I think it likely that county employees have a defined benefit retirement plan which allows for retirement at a young age and which pays a guaranteed amount without regard to the actuarial soundness of the underlying plan. That is increasingly rare outside government. If the stock and bond markets devastate private retirement plans, the beneficiaries of those plans are hurt, badly of late. Not so for beneficiaries of government plans. Market crashes mean only that our taxes, our childrens taxes, our grandchildrens taxes must be increased to make up the difference.

Both your health and retirement benefits are at the expense of all of us, most disturbingly including children not yet born whose incomes are already pledged to paying these benefits to you for the rest of your life. Your employer, the county, has made deposits to your account from a significantly overdrawn checkbook. This is not unique to Walton County. The headlines are full of examples farther down the path than we here. Greece, Hungary, Spain, California, New York, the United States.

The time is now for all of us to recognize that governments pretty much everywhere have made promises that cannot be kept. And among the most extravagant and expensive of those are the promises made to you. Were this sustainable and even remotely fair, I'd be happy to pay my taxes and keep my mouth shut. It is neither sustainable nor fair.

A gentleman from north of the bay told me 2 days ago that he lives in a 4 bedroom, 2 bath house, over 3000 square feet, on 32 acres for a couple of decades. When he contemplates moving, he reminds himself that his property tax bill from Walton County is less than $300 a year. When a more typical bill for properties on or near the beach is 10, 20, 30, or more times that, and that for almost no land at all and usually a fraction of the living space, a reasonable person might conclude this to be inequitable.

Where the pigeons will come home to roost will be county-wide if the current housing crisis is significantly exacerbated by the oil spill. Most of the owners of the beachfront and near-beachfront property bought those properties as investments and depend on rentals and the business spun off by those tourists to make their mortgages and pay their fees. A lot of those folks have defaulted on condo fees and bank loans, and a lot of businesses have closed. We may have seen only a part of the iceberg, and if this worsens significantly, we'll see a lot more condos go under and businesses fail.

When that happens, the decline in county revenues today will seem like the good old days. Who will be left to pay the unfunded liability for your health and retirement benefits? Who will be left to pay for current government operations? The policymakers of the County Commission have spent improvidently for the better part of the boom times, expanding facilities, personnel and budgets extraordinarily, rather than prudently setting aside for the inevitable rainy days. While many county employees are no doubt honorable, hard-working, well-meaning people, and I presume that to be most all of them, the county has operated with blinders typical of governments, and the bill has come due.

Those of us who fund most of the county operations understand that there is going to be shared sacrifice, and we hope to convince each and every county employee that the status quo is over, one way or another. Greece has public employee riots in resistance to inevitable givebacks by public employees. That is neither desirable nor acceptable here, and county employees need to understand that the rest of us have suffered to a greater extent than they. Our employers can't just raise taxes to maintain our expected pay and benefits.

I take no delight in passing these thoughts along. I'm an older man who wishes this were a more perfect world and who wishes to pass to his daughter and his grandchildren the blessings of America as he has been lucky enough to experience. I wish that for you and your children and grandchildren as well. If we row the boat together, we're more likely to achieve that.

Health and retirement benefits? Yeah, we have health insurance. If you want prescription drug coverage, you have to choose a $1500/$4500 deductible and the family policy runs $400.00 monthly. Yeah, we have dental insurance. I pay roughly $1000.00 a year for mine. Yet, my spouse's crown just maxed ours out. Retiring at an early age? Yes, my spouse has just turned in his drop papers and he just turned 49. He has put his life on the line for the citizens of this county for 28 years, and I would bet that most of us couldn't go to work every day with the knowledge that it just takes one idiot to go cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs and you don't get to come home or see your family again. As for my retirement, I'll probably die at my desk.

And (and I realize this is my fault, because I refuse to move from the land I grew up on and worked all of my adult life to get back to) I pay $3500.00 a year in property taxes, with the knowledge that it will go up another 2.7% this year due to homestead recapture. And, junior will be heading to college in a year.

I wish the best for you as well. But please do not argue with me that I have it better than you do, because I am working my arse off.
 
Thanks for the info. That is emblematic of the burden-sharing of which I just spoke in another reply. It would be a service to all if you could provide a synopsis of your conversation with Mr. McKee. He's going to be a very busy man fielding calls on this if we all contact him individually. I shall.

I didn't speak with Billy but have been in countless meetings where the HCP was discussed. Here is a link to the information on the County website that may be useful.

Walton County, FL - Home Page - Habitat Conservation Plan

As listed on the site, I would recommend calling Billy if you have any specific questions.
 
I don't want to get into any discussion about county employee pay and benefits, but having worked for one government or another all my life I will say they are usually grossly underpaid until they retire. Their benefits, to a great degree, are on the back end of their service provided they live that long. I, BTW, am lucky enough to have done so.
Now, to the question at hand. I just spoke with Billy McKee and the HCP, as presently proposed, calls for a one-time assessment of beachfront property owners of $235 per linear ft. to be put in a fund to cover the cost of permitting and other designated costs of future amoring, if necessary, for the next 25 years. This is still just a proposal and a long way from becoming a reality. There will be much discussion on this issue before anything is finalized.
 
I don't want to get into any discussion about county employee pay and benefits, but having worked for one government or another all my life I will say they are usually grossly underpaid until they retire. Their benefits, to a great degree, are on the back end of their service provided they live that long. I, BTW, am lucky enough to have done so.
Now, to the question at hand. I just spoke with Billy McKee and the HCP, as presently proposed, calls for a one-time assessment of beachfront property owners of $235 per linear ft. to be put in a fund to cover the cost of permitting and other designated costs of future amoring, if necessary, for the next 25 years. This is still just a proposal and a long way from becoming a reality. There will be much discussion on this issue before anything is finalized.


I am having a hard time understanding why every beachfront owner should be required to pay a huge tax so that IF armoring someone else's property becomes necessary the government can pay for it. Shouldn't this be the individual property owners responsibility? Who will manage the fund and will it be used elsewhere and IOU's stuck in a file cabinet?
 
New posts


Sign Up for SoWal Newsletter












                               
Back
Top