Matt J
SWGB
She seems to be attending them now.
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Proposed Countywide Noise Ordinance
- Thread starter Groovegirls
- Start date
She seems to be attending them now.
wrobert
Beach Fanatic
Businesses within the city limits are not affected by these ordinances. And it seems that as far as businesses go, Pandora's is the only one generating complaints. So this may have little to no affect on anyone else.
Groovegirls
Beach Fanatic
Didn't used to.
Groovegirls
Beach Fanatic
You are all making great points and in some ways the ordinance seems pointless and very well may be but what other options do we have. At least with an ordinance we can have a set of rules to refer to in court. I still feel like everything would be fine but for a small number of vocal people. The music scene has not changed so much as to warrant all this trouble. So how do we make the will of the majority known and respected?
I know nothing about the cops having decimel meters. If they do, then why don't they want to use them? I do know that it has been proposed before but always gets shot down. My understanding of why is vague at best. As far as buying sound measuring equipment, if we propose that we need to include a way to pay for it in our proposal. Personally I am open to anything that gives me a fair chance to work and a nice place to go when I'm off. If we can keep a few tourist in town helping our economy, that would sure be nice too. My thinking all along has been to try to work out a fair ordinance but it seems like quite a few people would like to see it defeated all together. I am not against that but I have to ask what can we do instead to protect our rights.?
We need Smiling Joe. He seems to have done the research on similiar ordinances in other municipalities.
I know nothing about the cops having decimel meters. If they do, then why don't they want to use them? I do know that it has been proposed before but always gets shot down. My understanding of why is vague at best. As far as buying sound measuring equipment, if we propose that we need to include a way to pay for it in our proposal. Personally I am open to anything that gives me a fair chance to work and a nice place to go when I'm off. If we can keep a few tourist in town helping our economy, that would sure be nice too. My thinking all along has been to try to work out a fair ordinance but it seems like quite a few people would like to see it defeated all together. I am not against that but I have to ask what can we do instead to protect our rights.?
We need Smiling Joe. He seems to have done the research on similiar ordinances in other municipalities.
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John R
needs to get out more
did you just get here?
Danny Burns
Beach Fanatic
Decimal (a number system based on 10), decimel (no such word). Decibel is the word we need to use here. Or...we all could just start using the abbreviation "dB" meter. It's easier and you don't have to spell it at all.
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wrobert
Beach Fanatic
Yesterday, why?
Smiling JOe
SoWal Expert
according to many court cases, other counties and cities don't have good models to copy. Maybe there are some which work, but it is difficult to locate if the squeaky wheel isn't squeaking.
I'm not speaking for the Sheriff, but I think I understand his point of view to which he hinted on Monday evening at the meeting. I've read similar thoughts from other Sheriff's Depts in other areas which have had issues with noise ordinances. The Sheriff doesn't want his deputies on scene for a noise violation, waiting with his decibel meter, for 30 minutes, waiting to detect five minutes of "excessive" noise, when they could be out fighting crime. The Sheriff would rather see Code Enforcement dealing with these minor infractions. However, Code Enforcement doesn't work after 5pm, nor on the weekends. Remember the proposed lighting ordinance? Code Enforcement was going to be in charge, but that would mean having an on-call agent for alleged violations. Many of the officers live north of Freeport, and by the time they drive to the complaint, it may be no longer, and thus a complete waste of money and time, for some arbitrarily enforced infraction.
I'm clueless when it comes to sound and decible meters. I'll leave that to John R and analogman. I'm curious, is it possible to set a decible meter to block out unamplified human voice (an exception from the proposed ordinance), wind noise, ocean waves, etc, and detect solely the amplified voice or instruments to see if someone is in violation?
On another note, if I were an attorney (and I am not), and I was handling a case on noise complaints, even when a decible meter was used, I would ask the question of the officer who cited the defendant, "How did you calculate the distance from the boundary of the offending property? The (proposed) Ordinance states that you must be 50 ft from the property's boundary. Do you know exactly where the boundary of the property is located? Did you use a survey to determine it?" etc. As one girl stated at the meeting, if the wind changes direction, the detectable sound at one location will also change.
We do need to go back to being good neighbors. We ARE a family-friendly sleepy little village in South Walton. We need to be respectful of others, and that works both ways. 10:00pm lights out is rather crazy on a Friday or Saturday night in my opinion. The sun will set around 9pm in the busy season, and bars are to stop having music one hour after sunset? Crazy! At least extend the hours for businesses to midnight on Friday and Saturday, and maybe 10-11pm on the weekdays.
One last thing I would like to acknowledge: When one of the Commissioners was in a round about way, asking the Sheriff if the existing Grayton ordinance was a good one, (s)he did so by asking, "Have there been any violations of the Grayton ordinance?"
The Sheriff responded by stating, "Only the one location (Pandora's)."
If you didn't know anything about Grayton, that sounds like only one place is a repeated offender. The rest of the story is that in area defined by the Grayton noise ordinance, only one place (Pandora's) is serving alcohol after 10pm, the time the noise ordinance begins. Red Bar stops serving, and Borago's doesn't even have live music. All other businesses in Grayton are closed by this time. So, while it may sound like only one place has a continued problem, it is really more like 33.3% of the restaurant/bars in Grayton DO have a problems with the existing (unConstitutional) noise ordinance of Grayton, and therefore, the Grayton noise ordinance isn't working, nor is it a decent model for which to base a County-wide ordinance.
I'm not speaking for the Sheriff, but I think I understand his point of view to which he hinted on Monday evening at the meeting. I've read similar thoughts from other Sheriff's Depts in other areas which have had issues with noise ordinances. The Sheriff doesn't want his deputies on scene for a noise violation, waiting with his decibel meter, for 30 minutes, waiting to detect five minutes of "excessive" noise, when they could be out fighting crime. The Sheriff would rather see Code Enforcement dealing with these minor infractions. However, Code Enforcement doesn't work after 5pm, nor on the weekends. Remember the proposed lighting ordinance? Code Enforcement was going to be in charge, but that would mean having an on-call agent for alleged violations. Many of the officers live north of Freeport, and by the time they drive to the complaint, it may be no longer, and thus a complete waste of money and time, for some arbitrarily enforced infraction.
I'm clueless when it comes to sound and decible meters. I'll leave that to John R and analogman. I'm curious, is it possible to set a decible meter to block out unamplified human voice (an exception from the proposed ordinance), wind noise, ocean waves, etc, and detect solely the amplified voice or instruments to see if someone is in violation?
On another note, if I were an attorney (and I am not), and I was handling a case on noise complaints, even when a decible meter was used, I would ask the question of the officer who cited the defendant, "How did you calculate the distance from the boundary of the offending property? The (proposed) Ordinance states that you must be 50 ft from the property's boundary. Do you know exactly where the boundary of the property is located? Did you use a survey to determine it?" etc. As one girl stated at the meeting, if the wind changes direction, the detectable sound at one location will also change.
We do need to go back to being good neighbors. We ARE a family-friendly sleepy little village in South Walton. We need to be respectful of others, and that works both ways. 10:00pm lights out is rather crazy on a Friday or Saturday night in my opinion. The sun will set around 9pm in the busy season, and bars are to stop having music one hour after sunset? Crazy! At least extend the hours for businesses to midnight on Friday and Saturday, and maybe 10-11pm on the weekdays.
One last thing I would like to acknowledge: When one of the Commissioners was in a round about way, asking the Sheriff if the existing Grayton ordinance was a good one, (s)he did so by asking, "Have there been any violations of the Grayton ordinance?"
The Sheriff responded by stating, "Only the one location (Pandora's)."
If you didn't know anything about Grayton, that sounds like only one place is a repeated offender. The rest of the story is that in area defined by the Grayton noise ordinance, only one place (Pandora's) is serving alcohol after 10pm, the time the noise ordinance begins. Red Bar stops serving, and Borago's doesn't even have live music. All other businesses in Grayton are closed by this time. So, while it may sound like only one place has a continued problem, it is really more like 33.3% of the restaurant/bars in Grayton DO have a problems with the existing (unConstitutional) noise ordinance of Grayton, and therefore, the Grayton noise ordinance isn't working, nor is it a decent model for which to base a County-wide ordinance.
Smiling JOe
SoWal Expert
One note, this proposed ordinance does have exceptions noted, and it is specifically for the "unicorporated" areas of Walton County. Freeport, Mossy Head, Paxton and Dufuniak may have their own ordinances regarding noise, but they are not included in this proposed ordinance.