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Real Estate Strategy

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mikecat adjuster

Beach Fanatic
An individual has maybe $160,000 cash. She does not have 'normal' employment. She is an artist, a painter, where she makes minimal money, and she works elsewhere in an irregular position where she may make anywhere from zero-60,000 plus a year.

She loves the Emerald Coast, but might also want to travel a bit. She sees that the economy here is depressed and housing prices have fallen significantly, and sees an opportunity for long term investment for her retirement. She is 40ish.

Issues. She has found a townhouse that she would love, but hates the idea of paying $300 plus in Association fees every month. She doesn't quite undertstand all the issues associated with an Association and doesn't particularly want to pay what amounts to an additional 'rent' after buying a dwelling.

She has seen some properties in the $150,000 range and wonders about placing a low bid on one, paying all cash, and having a bit left over as a cushion.

She knows the concept of 'Using other people's money' in borrowing from the bank, but also knows that a $150,000 dollar house becomes over 300,000 dollars spent after 30 years. So she wonders if paying cash is smart, being that her money really won't make that much in any investment vehicle anyway, unless she exposes it to much risk.

She also considers buying one of those really low dollar places, she's seen some in Panama City and Destin, which are old, and ugly, but in the $75,000 range. That would leave an even bigger cushion for her, and she could always work on making it more visually appealing.

She has also thought of buying a place, like one she saw with two little houses on a piece of property, where she can rent one and live in the other. I think the price was $180,000 or so. Again, not attractive, very vanilla, but when things go back up, hopefully within the next 15 to 20 years, that too will appreciate.

She wonders how the airport will affect things and if she should actually think of buying something in Crestview, or Freeport, or Niceville, though she absolutely loves being nearer the beach. She wonders if moving closer to he airport in Panama City is a smarter idea or if the benefits to 30-A will corrspond exactly to that of PC and it really doesn't matter where. She knows that any benefits from the area from the airport are years down the line.

She wonders a lot. Does anyone have input on what might be her best way to invest. She has even wondered about buying something here and renting it out, moving away to try to get a taste of living in another area, but having the property here as a future investment, because she believes in this area.

Any input? I realize buying real estate and investing in general is a very personal choice, but with all of the 'expert knowledge' from those on this site, perhaps someone will have something to say.
 
Hi Mike,

IMHO, working "elsewhere in an irregular position where she may make anywhere from zero-60,000 plus a year" could create problems for her in seeking conventional financing. With that said, if I were her. I would probably try to get as large a loan as possible, but she should expect that a healthy down payment might be required. I think she should conserve her cash as right now, cash is king. She can always pay down the principal if she finds herself making more money than anticipated, either through her art or her "elsewhere" employment.

As far as buying something here to rent out while living elsewhere, she'll have tough competition. There are alot of properties on the rental market and unless hers is particulary wonderful (read - cheap), it might not rent for enough to pay for itself. Of course a main house with a guest house is nice for the additional income. IMHO.
 
Avoiding HOA fees is a very good goal to have, they eat away at anything you might gain in appreciation and really don't provide all that much in terms of value. (Location is more important.) The closer to the beach she is, the higher her cost of ownership is going to be, besides HOA fees, she should also take into account flood zones, e.g. insurance costs, property tax costs, maintenance costs, loan payments, etc.. Home ownership is not 'free'. She should know exactly what the yearly burn rate is going to be before she buys. (I live in a gated community in a small two person house that suits me perfectly, and my burn rate is around 10K a year. It adds up.) On those years she earns nothing, how will she pay to keep the house?

On financing, personally I would pay cash, that's just me. I hate paying banks for the privilege of spending their money. There are plenty of online amortization calculators she can use to get a feel for how much she'll pay for the house, and how much she'll pay the bank.

"Real estate investing" is sort of a misnomer these days, I think she should be shopping for property that she would love to live in. If she doesn't want to live here yet, she shouldn't be shopping for property yet. If she doesn't like the house that's a steal, she shouldn't buy it. She can also use Walton, Okaloosa, and Bay county records to check past ownership on anything she likes - I would suggest avoiding sellers who purchased in 04, 05, 06, and 07.

As far as renting goes, it's a time consuming business filled with hassles. The amount of return (especially if she takes out a loan on the property) is usually not as good as the return on an investment in the market. She should ask herself if it's really worth the hassle. Rent however can provide regular cash flow, in her situation that might be a plus.

Overall, I would recommend your friend take her time, build a bigger cash position and not buy anything for at least two years. Otherwise she'll be throwing a nice chunk of that hard earned cash to the wind. This market is still going down down down. The most important advice I could give is - don't feel rushed, she has all the time in the world to find a nice place that fits what she's looking for. I would also recommend she not spend every dime she has on the house she buys. E.g. keep a cash cushion in the bank, investments, whatever. Diversity is a good thing.
 
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30a great post. you summed everything up to a t. thats the demons i'm fighting. i want to buy something yet i'm just not seeing prices off near enough to jump yet. this is were the problem lies. 90% of homes for sale seem to be from 2004-2007 which means the sellers are very anxious yet they don't want to take a lose thus thats were the standoff between buyer and seller is. the buyers know the economy is tanking and know many sellers will be forced to sell at some pt or go in foreclosure so they wait. but many of these buyers that can buy today might not be able to buy tommorrow as they could lose there job or other economic factors come in later. my own plan of action is if i can't get a great deal well under current mkt i'm waiting. if a deal never comes so be it i'll rent for 4 months of the year at 1/10 the the price of buying. to the patient all things come. 30 a are you in real estate? do you live on 30a?
 
I think she should rent in the area for a while to see where she would want to be long term - then buy something once she gets a better feel of the area.

In the current climate, buying a 150K house w/ no income and only 160k in the bank isn't a very wise move - especially when she wants to have $ to travel. She could take quite a vacation on a $300 a month association fee - $3600 a year saved if she rents.
 
HOA and COA fees are very similar to living in your very own little country. Those that control may or may not spend your "taxes" wisely. While some people feel that they are throwing money away that is not the case. Generally at the very base HOA/COA dues will cover water/sewer (condos), outside electricity such as lighting, and basic maintenance. In addition you should always look at the age of common elements and the reserve funds available to replace/repair them. In some cases COA/HOA dues can actually be very beneficial for someone living in them fulltime. Again it all depends on the board and management. Much like government if you never look at where the money goes or stand up against paying higher dues you will continue to do so.
 
Some people still buy property, improve and sell. It is however very much a business. I think if your friend wants to get serious about research and ultimate buying for investment she can do well. Most important is baby steps. Thoughtful, deliberate, baby steps.

On financing, there are local banks who can set your friend up with financing on their portfolio of properties currently in play. These are non-conventional transactions and do not require the conforming income guidelines.

All that said, I'd be more interested in buying a property for $325,000 with quality rental prospects that is also marketable for sale some day than getting into a property for 160,000 that may be harder to liquidate someday.
 
Great, well thought out responses. She discussed some real estate investment groups and thought of joining one to learn more about the area and the possibilities. I know of someone down in the Clearwater area who joined a group and said they benefited from the experience. They have sinced made some investments and done well. That area has been hit hard it also.

I agree that the bottom has not arrived yet. I moved here January 30th and remember a condo (a tiny, tiny condo) in west 30-a going for 150,000. I think it was about 350 square feet. Anyway, I think it's for sale for 90,000 now. Besides the fact that less than 400 sqaure feet is flat out claustrophobic, 60,000 off of 150,000 in less than a year tells me I'm sure glad I didn't buy then. It's funny, I have heard for the past several years from certain people that this is the time to buy (a buyer's market). I heard it when that condo unit was 150,000, and now that it's 90,000, I still here it. While there is some truth to that, I agree that the bottom has not arrived and really, as stated earlier, I think it's best for her not rush, but rather, find what it is she really wants. I think it's fruitless to try to 'time' the bottom. I think it's better to weigh other factors, since the bottom is not a firm thing anyway.

I talked to one guy who told me he made off good this past year, having bought a home, fixing it up himself, and selling it. He told me he only lost $100,000. Wow! I wonder if anyone is 'making' money in real estate now. I mean, I guess some investors could buy now and rent the properties out while they wait for the cycle to return in another decade or so, and then sell for income. Anyway, thanks guys!
 
mike think about a few things. we're in the greatest finacial chaos since the 1930's.the economy basically went vertical from 1982-2007 with a total of 8 down qtrs in those 25 years. we had massive bubbles in stocks and real estate for many of those years. what do you think the chances are that this chaos is over in 1-2 short years and its right back to business as usual?answer that question and you have your answer wether its a good time to buy.we'll have many fake bottoms in housing were the pundits will scream time and time again the bottoms in only to have pie in there face.
 
mike think about a few things. we're in the greatest finacial chaos since the 1930's.the economy basically went vertical from 1982-2007 with a total of 8 down qtrs in those 25 years. we had massive bubbles in stocks and real estate for many of those years. what do you think the chances are that this chaos is over in 1-2 short years and its right back to business as usual?answer that question and you have your answer wether its a good time to buy.we'll have many fake bottoms in housing were the pundits will scream time and time again the bottoms in only to have pie in there face.

I agree with him too Mike. I have speant 20 years analyzing real estate almost daily. To this day I don't know anything about the buy and hold.
 
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