Red Bar Sold?

[Smiling JOe]

just from someone who is looking for commercial property in the Grayton area today.

my question stands, is this person a reliable source for such info?

 

[TropicalTide]

Take the info for what it's worth....It's only reliable if it turns out to be true. Just asking if anyone has heard the same thing.

 

[JB]

Hopefully, Oli will see this thread and give us a reply. I tend to doubt he would sell, but in today's climate, who knows.

 

[DBOldford]

This rumor has been going around since the earth's crust was cooling. Seems the basis of it earlier was that the Grayton Grand resort/condos wanted a place for a "beach club" with easy access to the public beach. That turned out to be fiction. FYI, without benefit of a rezoning (not likely) of that parcel, the only thing that could replace The Red Bar would be a maximum of two single-family residences. Its commercial use is a legal nonconforming use, which means that it would not be approved today under the current County Zoning Ordinance and land use designation. I hope they stay, frankly. Oli serves some good food and music and the noise has never been a problem for me, in spite of the fact that a stone thrown from Conch Out's deck could practically hit the place. I remember that place when it was "The Store," with only a juke box and some cold drinks. There was nowhere to eat out at Grayton. On rare occasion, you might get an old hotdog from the same cooler that kept the live bait at "The Store." In those days, the sand dunes came right up to the window ledges. People used to jump out the windows to "step outside" for throwing a few punches. Oh, the ghosts in that spot... :roll: :shock: :funn: :nono1:

 

[TooFarTampa]

This rumor has been going around since the earth's crust was cooling. Seems the basis of it earlier was that the Grayton Grand resort/condos wanted a place for a "beach club" with easy access to the public beach. That turned out to be fiction. FYI, without benefit of a rezoning (not likely) of that parcel, the only thing that could replace The Red Bar would be a maximum of two single-family residences. Its commercial use is a legal nonconforming use, which means that it would not be approved today under the current County Zoning Ordinance and land use designation. I hope they stay, frankly. Oli serves some good food and music and the noise has never been a problem for me, in spite of the fact that a stone thrown from Conch Out's deck could practically hit the place. I remember that place when it was "The Store," with only a juke box and some cold drinks. There was nowhere to eat out at Grayton. On rare occasion, you might get an old hotdog from the same cooler that kept the live bait at "The Store." In those days, the sand dunes came right up to the window ledges. People used to jump out the windows to "step outside" for throwing a few punches. Oh, the ghosts in that spot... :roll: :shock: :funn: :nono1:

Donna you know a little bit about planning. :roll: Please read the Naturewalk at Seagrove thread and tell us what you think.

 

[Smiling JOe]

FYI, without benefit of a rezoning (not likely) of that parcel, the only thing that could replace The Red Bar would be a maximum of two single-family residences. Its commercial use is a legal nonconforming use, which means that it would not be approved today under the current County Zoning Ordinance and land use designation.

Donna, obviously you know only one of the County Commissioners. Three of the other ones changed the record books last week by their vote, allowing NatureWalk Beach Club to expand the non-conforming use of the Seagrove Villas, when it should not be able to expand. In fact, the new density will exceed the greatest density allowed in Walton County! :shock:

That said, you are mostly correct in what is supposed to happen regarding nonconforming uses. Someone could buy it and keep it as a business, if they meet certain guidelines.

 

[DBOldford]

Well, I will read the thread and get back to you with comments. I will say that legal nonconforming uses are traditionally the most abused of all planning status projects. By definition, they are not allowed to expand the footprint or the use beyond the existing. But people are allowed to take advantage of this all the time. It is often a sneaky way of getting something approved that would never stand public scrutiny in a discretionary permit application. If challenged, the actions are seldom defensible. Most planners will tell you that have never seen a application that really makes the case for the legal nonconforming use. In fact, if the use is abandoned for six months or more (differs in some jurisdictions), then the use is effectively lost and the land reverts to its current zoning status. Planning is not a perfect world, alas!

 

[Smiling JOe]

... In fact, if the use is abandoned for six months or more (differs in some jurisdictions), then the use is effectively lost and the land reverts to its current zoning status.

The nonconforming property is also supposed to revert to the current zoning if the value of the existing structure is decreased by more than 50% for any reason, be it storm, fire, or demolition. I would say that this will be the case in the Seagrove Villas, but who will be the party responsible for seeing determining when the structure's value has decreased by more than 50%? Attorney George Miller?

 

[kathydwells]

The nonconforming property is also supposed to revert to the current zoning if the value of the existing structure is decreased by more than 50% for any reason, be it storm, fire, or demolition. I would say that this will be the case in the Seagrove Villas, but who will be the party responsible for seeing determining when the structure's value has decreased by more than 50%? Attorney George Miller?

Are the Villa's still open at this time SJ?

 

[Smiling JOe]

I will carry this back to the NatureWalk at Seagrove thread. >>>to NatureWalk<<<