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Scott scraps Orlando to Tampa rail project

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30ashopper said:
Americans love cars. Best to replace them with more fuel efficient vehicles. Trains don't work on a mass scale here.

We've been partying off the froth of the real estate bubble for years now. Scott's dragging the state back on the right track, yelling, kicking, and screaming if he has to.
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high speed trains would work well orlando to miami tampa to orlando. they will do well in ca. they've never been given a chance here. funny that we will push offshore drilling before mass transit. who do this benefit? follow the money eh a?
 
scooterbug44 said:
You're talking pretty crazy. My guess is you have no idea what kind of numbers you are talking about.

As a taxpayer who pays for their own health care and runs their own business, I can safely say that your proposal has no basis in reality.

The less fortunate are a minor expense - despite what you think, corporations and millionaires get many more handouts.

The amount we spend on foreign aid is minuscule compared to what we spend on tax cuts, subsidies, and the military.

Cutting foreign aid by 50% would save us $17 billion. Letting the Bush tax cuts expire for people over $250K would have saved us $54 billion.

Cutting Iraq & Afghanistan troops to 60K - $51 billion.

Have fun playing with this:

Budget Puzzle: You Fix the Budget - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com
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Now that you have pointed out all the places cutting would make no difference, would you please point out were we should start? We played with this puzzle previously, and it took Geo less than 30 minutes to balance the budget, but no one would have accepted his reasonable cuts.
Just maybe we could also consider the 100's of redundant programs operated by the different agencies of the federal government. I also imagine the same could be said of the state level as well. Let's not cut anything seems to be what some want. That is not going to solve the problem and it is a given the problem is not going to be solved overnight, this year or even in five years but it is time to start doing so.
 
I think most of us would have accepted Geo's cuts - or at least seen them as a good starting point for some reasonable compromise.

As far as eliminating redundancy, I started a thread last week with recommendations from a non-partisan group about how to take a big chunk out of the budget by making changes that wouldn't really affect many people, but would save a lot of money.

The Charlie Sheen thread got more posts and reads.
 
Bob said:
high speed trains would work well orlando to miami tampa to orlando. they will do well in ca. they've never been given a chance here. funny that we will push offshore drilling before mass transit. who do this benefit? follow the money eh a?
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How do you know that they would work well? Does anyone have a link to any study that shows this? How much are ticket prices (key driver to usage)? What is the user demographic (are they willing to pay for tickets and then pay a cabbie to get them from the train station to their destination)? What would the schedule be (I understand rush hour is the problem not all day)? How many seats are available per trip (big trains or small trains)? How many seats are available per day? Details... Details....

I can buy it in the northeast where trains run already and people are used to riding but I have a very hard time accepting that 9,000+ people per day will travel from Orlando to Tampa and I am a FAN of train travel. I just don't agree that this route is viable without a connection to the north and am not buying into the Field of Dreams approach to "build it and they will come."
 
I tried to link to the FDOT site where the report is supposed to be...got a message saying the site was down...:idontno:
 
New study gives high speed rail supporters more ammo in fight to save project
this has a PDF with a portion of the study.

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/march/217665/Florida-gets-another-shot-at-high-speed-rail
It looks like Florida will get another chance at high-speed rail, and this time, it won't need the governor's approval.

The news came from Washington early Friday evening.

One of the project?s biggest supporters, Sen. Bill Nelson, was elated and has remained cautiously optimistic he would be able to find a way to bypass Gov. Rick Scott if Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood would go for it.

But a few things still have to happen.

First, there has to be an inter-local agreement between the cities where the rail runs -- Orlando, Lakeland and Tampa ? which is already there.

Next, they have to partner with someone other than the state to operate the rail likely Amtrak, although it could be a newly created rail authority.

Finally, since we passed on the $2.4 billion originally, now it's open to everyone in the country.

However, Nelson is pretty confident we will win the bid process.

"Remember Florida in the secretary's mind was the absolute best project in the nation. Why? Because the right of way is there. The environmental studies are there. The project is ready to go with no delays, so we can get this money to start digging dirt and pouring concrete," said Sen. Bill Nelson.

"Beyond a doubt, a high-speed rail line would be of tremendous benefit to the state of Florida, both for the state's infrastructure as well as for job creation," said Democratic Rep. Corrine Brown.

It?s estimated the rail would create 24,000 jobs.

The new deadline for everyone to apply for this money is April 4.

Nelson admitted one of the potential hurdles could still be the governor.

The state owns the median of Interstate 4 where the rail would be built.

The senator said the governor could try to block the project on those grounds, but then the state Legislature could intervene.
High-speed rail news


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This week's ridership projections exaggerate the previously exaggerated projections even more.

In a market with 80 percent less population and less tourism than Washington-to-New York, planners were projecting ridership at only 30 percent less. Now, these new projections place Tampa-Orlando ridership at least as high as in the Washington-to-New York corridor. This requires a child-like faith that Floridians are likely to take the train eight times as often as people in the Washington-to-New York corridor. Economists have developed something called the "laugh test" for numbers like these.

Comprehensive international research, led by Oxford University Professor Bent Flyvbjerg has shown that ridership projections on large passenger rail projects overstate actual ridership by an average of 65 percent. This exaggeration of ridership results in an exaggeration of revenue levels, which increases the likelihood of losses.
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Reason Foundation - Out of Control Policy Blog > New, Even More Exaggerated, Florida High-Speed Rail Numbers

Kinda what I figured. DOT numbers are inflated beyond reason. The devil is in the details.
 
The last time gas prices were this high we had a surge in public transportation ridership.

$3.50 - 4 gas is the point at which many see the light.
 
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