Should government bail out seawall owners?

[Kurt]

but didn't they get tons of BP money and they spent it on advertising and giving out gift cards from Southwest, etc.?

Previous money given to panhandle counties and the state of Florida was from a special fund specific to tourism marketing. Now they are talking about recouping actual bed tax losses.

So now we need to hire a lawyer for their economic expertise? Does the lawyer have a degree in economics? Didn't we hire people for the TDC because THEY were supposed to know the local economy?

I saw a news clip the other day and per the TDC's own survey (wonder what that cost BTW) only 50% of previous visitors stayed away because of oil concerns.

25% cited financial reasons. Maybe they should address that. Every event keeps jacking up prices and nickel and diming folks and few other prices ever go down.

Which is why I suggest using BP money for free gas, lodging, gift cards, discounts, etc. to entice travelers.

 

[lenzoe]

No, government should not bail out seawall owners at public expense, but if government is proposing taxing these, what does the public get for that taxation? I don't understand what environmental mitigation costs they are supposedly incurring as a result of these seawalls.

What's the difference between a legal seawall and an illegal one?

When our neighbor built one, my understanding was seawalls would only be "temporarily" approved for residences built on bluffs with no pilings. Our neighbor was built on pilings and went ahead and stuck one in anyway because they could get away with it at the time. It certainly wasn't necessary to protect property.

It's obvious that the only good that it do will be to direct part of future surge force over on to our property. When I complained about that to the DEP they said they could do nothing about that.

I don't like seawalls, but I don't think giving more money to a useless organization is going to help anything either.

 

[NotDeadYet]

Here's a link to a long story in the Defuniak Herald. It explains it pretty well.
Defuniak Herald ? Habitat Conservation Plan on Jan. 11 agenda

Regarding your neighbor whose house is on pilings, as the DEP goes through the list of seawalls one by one, they should/would decline to permit those like that one that do not qualify. But with the bill being proposed, your neighbor will probably get to keep it.

 

[scooterbug44]

Thanks - that was very well explained.

Also the first I heard that only $3 million of the $10 million was because of the seawalls (the rest is for county programs over the next 25 years).

I thought that $10 million was what taxpayers were ponying up for the illegal seawalls.

 

[lenzoe]

Here's a link to a long story in the Defuniak Herald. It explains it pretty well.
Defuniak Herald ? Habitat Conservation Plan on Jan. 11 agenda

Regarding your neighbor whose house is on pilings, as the DEP goes through the list of seawalls one by one, they should/would decline to permit those like that one that do not qualify. But with the bill being proposed, your neighbor will probably get to keep it.

Thanks for the pointer. So this says at one point:

Walton County entered the agreement to resolve issues related to ?take? or harm to federally protected species raised by U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service officials in connection with the county?s approval of permits for temporary coastal armoring in the emergency period following 2005 Hurricane Dennis.

So, in theory there's a 3 million dollar value the US Fish and Wildlife Service has placed on the harm these seawalls will cause to federally protected species over the next 25 years?

Before the seawalls, were you likely to see sea turtles climbing the bluffs at Blue Mountain? I doubt it. Seems to me any damage that was done was mostly when they were being constructed. We've already done damage by overdeveloping the entire area, but there's always a tug-of-war between development and environmental protection.

I think the ones that were illegal to begin with should never be "permanently" permitted. Walton county should never have given those permits out. That was another one of those "we've got to do something," moments.

Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing.

 

[NotDeadYet]

So, in theory there's a 3 million dollar value the US Fish and Wildlife Service has placed on the harm these seawalls will cause to federally protected species over the next 25 years?

Before the seawalls, were you likely to see sea turtles climbing the bluffs at Blue Mountain?

I think the money relates more to the costs to implement and enforce the Habitat Conservation Plan.

Here's the short version, Lenzoe, as short as I can make it anyway. Walton County has a positively abysmal record when it comes to protecting not just the sea turtles but the other beach wildlife. For years they refused to take any of the steps that are well-established in other parts of the state. As a result, the county had a bad rep with the state and federal agencies. The seawall fiasco gave these agencies the leverage they needed, via the Endangered Species Act and its provisions relating to "take" of protected species or habitat. If the county had say for instance passed a lighting ordinance ten years ago, which is about when they were first asked to, or other sea turtle protection measures like getting the crap off the beach at night, the HCP probably would not have been necessary.

So far as the walls in Blue Mtn, I can't speak to those specific ones. But I do know that some walls elsewhere have in fact disrupted nesting, due to the way they were sited. State standards were not always followed when the walls were constructed, not only as to siting but as to qualification, as you noted. That is what the DEP process of permitting after-the-fact on a case by case basis was supposed to remedy. The ones that violate state seawall standards should be denied permits, and now that will not happen if the bill passes.

In my opinion, once again, the county delayed and delayed and then delayed some more, and the end result is the state coming in and cracking down, which always costs money.

If you want to plow through the HCP, it's on the county web site.
Walton County, FL - Home Page - Habitat Conservation Plan

 

[lenzoe]

[...]Here's the short version, Lenzoe

Thanks for the readers digest version. That helps. I'll read up on the HCP as this is mostly new info to me.

 

[Andy A]

Here is the version of the seawall situation from one who was involved from the beginning of construction at one point in Blue Mt. Beach. Oh, forget it. I am tired of trying to justify the protection of our property and the restoration of the dune with over $250,000 worth of the proper type of sand.
To my knowledge, at least three known turtle nests have been supported by the efforts of the property owners at Adagio, White Cliffs, Sea Bluff and Bella Vita to restore the dunes to some semblance of what they were before Dennis. At least one of those nests were moved and relocated. The one I am aware of being relocated was moved to the East Coast of Florida I have been told.
I am well aware that some walls were built without the proper authority and in the wrong places. That is not the case here. We only ask that we be given proper consideration for what was done correctly and so far there appears to be no attempt on anyone's part to do so. I believe each wall should be evaluated individually but once it is determined it was built on private property, properly permitted as required at the time and properly constructed, it should be given approval. That is why I support the legislation to approve the walls. It should be done with the caveats I have outlined, no more, no less. The funding of the enhanced HCP should not fall solely on the beachfront property owners. They have already paid dearly for Dennis and have not requested anything from anybody in return.
I ask you to come walk the stretch of Blue Mt. Beach from Adagio to Bella Vita and then tell me it is not fit for habitat of the species being named. There is no "take", only restoration.

 

[NotDeadYet]

No love lost between Gaetz and the county commission.......:roll:

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/walton-36738-legislation-officials.html

Walton officials uneasy over proposed seawall legislation | walton, legislation, officials - News - Northwest Florida Daily News

Walton County officials have concerns about proposed legislation that would exempt some property owners from obtaining state permits for their seawalls.

In 2005, the county allowed about 200 owners to build seawalls in the wake of Hurricane Dennis and extensive erosion.

The issue of whether that breaks state and federal law ? and whether the owners should have to obtain permits from the state Department of Environmental Protection ? has plagued the county for the past five years.

The legislative delegation voted in December to introduce a local bill ? when the Legislature reconvenes March 8 ? that would resolve the problems facing about 200 homeowners with post-Dennis seawalls.

?It?s a matter of simple justice,? state Sen. Don Gaetz said Monday.

Local government gave the homeowners permission to build the seawalls in the first place and it?s unfair to ?decertify? the structures now, he added.

?If the local bill passes ? I believe the property owners? rights would be upheld and the county?s effort to use this as an opportunity to gain a bunch of additional revenue would be thwarted,? Gaetz said.

But Walton County commissioners object to the idea of letting homeowners forego the permitting process altogether....