Some numbers on the Senate Health Care Bill

[sullygromo]

I totally saw that coming.

I wonder what the costs of no wars would be?

And since we are spending so much on wars, maybe the government should borrow more money and provide free food and housing to everyone in the United States.

I am very confused at your response...

I understand that you are going for sarcasm and wit here, but its going over my head I guess...can you expound on this a little more??

 

[Winnie]

I am very confused at your response...

I understand that you are going for sarcasm and wit here, but its going over my head I guess...can you expound on this a little more??

I'm unsure which part you are referring to. So...

When I read the first post of this thread, I just knew someone was going to bring up the cost of war, as if it had any bearing. Maybe that's wit?

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or witty regarding the costs of not going to war. The cost of inaction regarding Afghanistan could well have been even more precious in lives, suffering, and dollars.

The last bit was sarcastic. I was just trying to illustrate how ridiculous the premise is - saying that because we spend on military we should carelessly spend on luxuries we can't afford.

 

[scooterbug44]

I would like to see us reduce our deficit, balance the budget, and cut spending overall.

And I can see the benefit of military spending, but there IS a great deal of waste and money going to private contractors and cronies.

We can't get our spending under control when we keep spending billions and trillions in the military and on wars.

And if I do have to choose, medical care for my fellow Americans certainly trumps outright losing pallets of cash that disappear when we flying them to Iraq/Halliburton.

 

[Winnie]

I would like to see us reduce our deficit, balance the budget, and cut spending overall.

And I can see the benefit of military spending, but there IS a great deal of waste and money going to private contractors and cronies.

We can't get our spending under control when we keep spending billions and trillions in the military and on wars.

And if I do have to choose, medical care for my fellow Americans certainly trumps outright losing pallets of cash that disappear when we flying them to Iraq/Halliburton.

But it isn't an either/or. Military spending does not go down just because we spend elsewhere. We spend in addition, not instead.

I agree about the waste though.

 

[scooterbug44]

Sorry, habit since in a real budget it is an either/or. Unlike the government who just runs up more debt, I actually choose between items.

I just find it REALLY frustrating that we can always justify spending for weapons and war, but all hell breaks lose when it's for things that actually do good domestically.

 

[sullygromo]

My post was in response to Andy's suggestion that we start to reduce the deficit by not passing this health care bill (or whatever it was he said exactly). I was suggesting, and pretty clearly I thought, that another possibility would be to stop wasting money on wars that are arguably doing nothing for this country.

How you can say that one thing has nothing to do with the other is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY beyond me, but OK...I guess Im just Captain Obvious who doesn't know what he's talking about...

And so I'm clear, you're also contending that health care for our fellow citizens is a "luxury" and one we can't afford at that?

Scooter, well stated points regarding your frustrations on the matter. I couldn't agree more..

 

[30ashopper]

My post was in response to Andy's suggestion that we start to reduce the deficit by not passing this health care bill (or whatever it was he said exactly). I was suggesting, and pretty clearly I thought, that another possibility would be to stop wasting money on wars that are arguably doing nothing for this country.

How you can say that one thing has nothing to do with the other is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY beyond me, but OK...I guess Im just Captain Obvious who doesn't know what he's talking about...

And so I'm clear, you're also contending that health care for our fellow citizens is a "luxury" and one we can't afford at that?

Scooter, well stated points regarding your frustrations on the matter. I couldn't agree more..

Lets assume we cut the defense budget to zero. That still wouldn't cover the current healthcare bill and balance the books. In order to provide the free care you desire, what else are you willing to cut?

Also, taking into account that over the long term entitlement expenses grow at a higher rate than inflation, what will you cut / tax in the future to cover the additional costs long term?

Also, if we do zero out the military budget, if we are attacked, how will you defend the country? We can strip out the wars and keep the military if you want, but that just makes matters worse.

My general question is, how will you pay for our existing entitlements plus this new entitlement, independent of any money we spend on Iraq and Afghanistan? Nix those two expenditures and the federal government is still deep in the hole. Do you have a solution?

 

[sullygromo]

Shopper, your points are well stated and well taken. That is the crux of the issue, is it not? I am hardly saying I am in favor of free universal health care at the expense of everything else. The point I am trying to make is twofold:

1) There are 2 valid sides here, as you have clearly pointed out. I happen to be on the side that believes that all Americans should have access to health care as a birthright. I am not claiming to know the best way as to how to get there, and I don't think anyone does right now.

2) This country has wasted massive resources, wasted countless young lives and created a huge deficit by starting wars that have done nothing to protect us or advance our interests as a country since Sept. 11, 2001. The deficit that the Bush administration created was irresponsible, immoral, and quite possibly criminal IMO and should never have happened. The money that we continue to spend on a daily basis could be used in other, more productive way to help us as a country.....I just don't see how you can argue that, regardless of your political beliefs.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!!!!

I have added "somewhat aggressive, thoughtful (mostly) debate on Sowal to my list of things to be thankful for this year!

 

[30ashopper]

Shopper, your points are well stated and well taken. That is the crux of the issue, is it not? I am hardly saying I am in favor of free universal health care at the expense of everything else. The point I am trying to make is twofold:

1) There are 2 valid sides here, as you have clearly pointed out. I happen to be on the side that believes that all Americans should have access to health care as a birthright. I am not claiming to know the best way as to how to get there, and I don't think anyone does right now.

2) This country has wasted massive resources, wasted countless young lives and created a huge deficit by starting wars that have done nothing to protect us or advance our interests as a country since Sept. 11, 2001. The deficit that the Bush administration created was irresponsible, immoral, and quite possibly criminal IMO and should never have happened. The money that we continue to spend on a daily basis could be used in other, more productive way to help us as a country.....I just don't see how you can argue that, regardless of your political beliefs.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!!!!

I have added "somewhat aggressive, thoughtful (mostly) debate on Sowal to my list of things to be thankful for this year!

I don't agree that Afghanistan falls under that classification. I'd hate to think what Osama would have cooked up next had we left him to his business and not reacted to 9/11. Iraq is a different story.

Generally I agree though, deficits need to be allowed only in extreme cases. We've certainly let our elected officials lose sight of that, Bush is no exception. Neither is Obama.

 

[traderx]

Shopper, your points are well stated and well taken. That is the crux of the issue, is it not? I am hardly saying I am in favor of free universal health care at the expense of everything else. The point I am trying to make is twofold:

1) There are 2 valid sides here, as you have clearly pointed out. I happen to be on the side that believes that all Americans should have access to health care as a birthright. I am not claiming to know the best way as to how to get there, and I don't think anyone does right now.

2) This country has wasted massive resources, wasted countless young lives and created a huge deficit by starting wars that have done nothing to protect us or advance our interests as a country since Sept. 11, 2001. The deficit that the Bush administration created was irresponsible, immoral, and quite possibly criminal IMO and should never have happened. The money that we continue to spend on a daily basis could be used in other, more productive way to help us as a country.....I just don't see how you can argue that, regardless of your political beliefs.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!!!!

I have added "somewhat aggressive, thoughtful (mostly) debate on Sowal to my list of things to be thankful for this year!

Bush did not create the budget deficit. He added to it as every President since 1952 has done. This raises a question. If he created a budget surplus, why did our federal debt increase every year of Clinton's presidency?

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999