Surge is a Success!!

[rancid]

Why should I concede anything? The key to a lie is intent. Considering, from various intelligence, Hussein believed he had the WMDs himself, and considering we have pretty good intelligence that much of them were moved to Syria by the Russians, how in the hell do you believe Bush, who you believe is barely intelligent enough to obtain a high school diploma, knew better than everyone else, including the man who believed that he had them, fooled the rest of the world or got them all to play along with the fact that they had them but not the invasion, but he didn't have the foresight or ability to plant some there when there were boots on the ground? The "lie" argument makes zero sense.

Intent is something we will never know. That ends the argument because you , I or anyone else can never know Bush's intent.
Secondly, I don't believe I have implied Bush is uneducated. Far from it. Despite his cowboy act, we all know he is an Ivy League educated blue blood. My problem with Bush is the consistently wrong decicions made by him. Decision making can be equally poor in well and poorly educated individuals.

 

[Uncle Timmy]

I?ve made my case as to why we should invade. I?ve made my case as to what I see as a victory. Hell, if I go on about it you accuse me of rambling. Because some faceless internet person wants to boil it down to one statement and corner me on that to be an end all be all is not my fault, but his. I kept it simple because I know that you lack the willingness and capacity to consider the details. Look back and see where I posted the compromise we look to be reaching with Iran. I?d consider that worth our time and worth the lives of 3,500 men who volunteered to risk them.

As for your assessment of the surge, it is as limited and you were as open minded about it as Reid, Pelosi and Company. These things take time, Timmy. War isn?t as easy as one of your computer games. September is rather early to assess the results of the strategy, but that?s the timetable they agreed upon, so we?ll look at it then.

6thGen, you don?t debate ?you grandstand.

You have never articulated a position on a ?victory? in Iraq beyond oversimplified achievements. You have never articulated a coherent position on why you support the ?surge?.

You post articles, you ramble about WWII, you make references to a deal with Iran, blah , blah , blah?????

It is blatantly obvious to me as to why you will not stand and debate the facts here. Hard to do, isn?t it? It requires you to admit errors in the face of facts and that is something you seem incapable of doing. Good way to grandstand, bad way to debate.

You dismiss your critics without addressing their criticism. In short, you act a lot like the Bush Administration.

And, unbelievably: knowing that I end every one of these discussions with you by pointing out how you continue to show the same flawed thinking (and now tactics) that got us into this mess you stroll right into another brilliant example of this.

Keep on grandstanding.

 

[Uncle Timmy]

Could the irony be more intense, or more tragic? The pro-war Bush supporters are now pointing to the very disasters in Iraq which they promised would never occur (and which they caused) as the principal reason we must continue to follow their war-crazed schemes and remain in Iraq indefinitely.

But it is now clear to all but the most wild-eyed fanatics that the same people peddling this new rationale have been wrong about everything thus far -- oh, and if you oppose them you are a 'defeatist'.

 

[6thGen]

Intent is something we will never know. That ends the argument because you , I or anyone else can never know Bush's intent.
Secondly, I don't believe I have implied Bush is uneducated. Far from it. Despite his cowboy act, we all know he is an Ivy League educated blue blood. My problem with Bush is the consistently wrong decicions made by him. Decision making can be equally poor in well and poorly educated individuals.

Gotcha. That?s pretty much my point on this. In reality, I hope we could agree that the likelihood of a lie is less than 50%, I?d say a lot less than that, but we can disagree there. As for the intelligence aspect, sorry for falsely attributing it. Most of the folks who go with the ?Bush lied and people died? argument stick that in their back pocket as well, despite the fact that the two arguments cannot mutually exist. I am frustrated with some decision making, and am frustrated with the insulation he prefers. However I appreciate action rather than constant mulling, and I realize that when your actions have such far reaching effects it is easy to play Monday Morning QB and examine the things that went wrong without looking at potential downsides to inaction or a different course of action.

 

[6thGen]

6thGen, you don?t debate ?you grandstand.

You have never articulated a position on a ?victory? in Iraq beyond oversimplified achievements. You have never articulated a coherent position on why you support the ?surge?.

You post articles, you ramble about WWII, you make references to a deal with Iran, blah , blah , blah?????

It is blatantly obvious to me as to why you will not stand and debate the facts here. Hard to do, isn?t it? It requires you to admit errors in the face of facts and that is something you seem incapable of doing. Good way to grandstand, bad way to debate.

You dismiss your critics without addressing their criticism. In short, you act a lot like the Bush Administration.

And, unbelievably: knowing that I end every one of these discussions with you by pointing out how you continue to show the same flawed thinking (and now tactics) that got us into this mess you stroll right into another brilliant example of this.

Keep on grandstanding.

What do you want to debate, Timmy? Here is what I posted a while back on a deal in Iraq. Again, I'd consider this worth our effort there. You?

Potential deal on Iraq - SoWal Beaches Forum

 

[Uncle Timmy]

I?m sorry, I know I should just walk away and not make a further spectacle of this thread but I?m just in utter amazement of this one??

As for your assessment of the surge, it is as limited and you were as open minded about it as Reid, Pelosi and Company. These things take time, Timmy. War isn?t as easy as one of your computer games.

In other words:
?I know war, you don?t ?just trust my opinion, don?t challenge me, ?.go play with your computer games.?

How embarrassing to been seen expressing such nonsense.

 

[scooterbug44]

Still waiting on the Russia/Syria documentation!

 

[Uncle Timmy]

What do you want to debate, Timmy? Here is what I posted a while back on a deal in Iraq. Again, I'd consider this worth our effort there. You?

http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=13465

I post a lot of articles to solicit comments, they do not necessarily constitute my position however. So there is no reason to assume this is yours unless you say so.

The article you posted lists several ?spoilers? which I would agree with. Are you agreeing with the article or the ?spoilers??

Again , this does not yet articulate what your position on the surge and the future of US Policy in Iraq needs to be.

 

[6thGen]

I?m sorry, I know I should just walk away and not make a further spectacle of this thread but I?m just in utter amazement of this one??



In other words:
?I know war, you don?t ?just trust my opinion, don?t challenge me, ?.go play with your computer games.?

How embarrassing to been seen expressing such nonsense.

No, I believe it is ridiculous to believe that you can assess a strategy based on 4 months from initiation. And you say I grandstand?

As for the deal below, I agree with the article.

 

[6thGen]

Still waiting on the Russia/Syria documentation!

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041028-122637-6257r.htm

I didn't state it as fact, I stated that we have intelligence that says such. Besides, it's not really cozy to bring this up when the two countries are trying not to hate each other. What about Bush linking Hussein to 9/11, since you can't begin to prove that he lied?