Virginia judge rules health care mandate unconstitutional

[scooterbug44]

Yes, you keep asking how we are going to pay for it, and I keep asking "Aren't we already paying for it?"

IMO (and based on the article you posted) the economy is doing far more to put people in Florida on Medicaid and Medicare than Obamacare.

I really don't care what buzzwords you use - the issue stays the same and the lack of solutions being offered does as well.

Until you offer a BETTER solution, it's just unproductive whining and more partisan crap.

And that balanced budget amendment was political fluff and pandering. It may as well have been a pardon for Jim Morrison.

 

[30ashopper]

Yes, you keep asking how we are going to pay for it, and I keep asking "Aren't we already paying for it?"

IMO (and based on the article you posted) the economy is doing far more to put people in Florida on Medicaid and Medicare than Obamacare.

I really don't care what buzzwords you use - the issue stays the same and the lack of solutions being offered does as well.

Until you offer a BETTER solution, it's just unproductive whining and more partisan crap.

And that balanced budget amendment was political fluff and pandering. It may as well have been a pardon for Jim Morrison.

The bill mandates a significant increase in costs and Medicaid disbursements for our state. Whether or not you think this money is simply shifted from one area of your pocket book to another is irrelevant. I'm curious what taxes and fees liberals will accept at the state level to pay for this. I haven't heard any suggestions yet.

We should probably avoid hammering tourists with taxes, since that will likely hurt state government and business revenues.

We increased all sort of fees a year ago to cover a three billion shortfall, so we'll need another increase like that to cover the cost of Obamacare.

I'm not trying to play poltical games here, the cost increase will be real. We must fund it. I'm wondering how we'll do that. The first wave of cost increases hits in 2014.

 

[scooterbug44]

Fine, I will support an increased tax on junk food/soda, cigarettes, gasoline, diet pills, a plastic bag fee, and increase fines for texting while driving.

These apply to everyone equally and will improve the health of our citizens.

I also support a .05% of the amount reward for any Medicare/medicaid fraud uncovered/reported. Fraud is part of the reason costs are so high.

 

[30ashopper]

Fine, I will support an increased tax on junk food/soda, cigarettes, gasoline, diet pills, a plastic bag fee, and increase fines for texting while driving.

These apply to everyone equally and will improve the health of our citizens.

I also support a .05% of the amount reward for any Medicare/medicaid fraud uncovered/reported. Fraud is part of the reason costs are so high.

Actually, those increases will likely hit the poor and middle class more than anything. Which is fine I suppose, since they will be enjoying all the benefits.

We actually have a little more time beyond 2014, in order to sell this thing, the federal government will be picking up a large percentage of the medicaid costs initially. Here's a complete breakdown of cost increases we can expect at the state level over the next decade.

Obamacare: Impact on States | The Heritage Foundation

 

[BeachSiO2]

I have a different question that I may have missed the answer to. In 2014 when everyone who is sick or has preexisting conditions can get insurance what happens to the cost of insurance as a whole if their is no mandate? I can see a situation where no healthy person gets insurance until they need it and thus insurance companies either need to raise rates to where it is cost prohibitive or they lose money and shut down.

It seems that if you are going to force insurance companies to make insurance available to everyone, even after they get sick, then you will either have to have a single payer system or require the healthy to subsidize the unhealthy through mandates. What am I missing?

 

[30ashopper]

I have a different question that I may have missed the answer to. In 2014 when everyone who is sick or has preexisting conditions can get insurance what happens to the cost of insurance as a whole if their is no mandate? I can see a situation where no healthy person gets insurance until they need it and thus insurance companies either need to raise rates to where it is cost prohibitive or they lose money and shut down.

It seems that if you are going to force insurance companies to make insurance available to everyone, even after they get sick, then you will either have to have a single payer system or require the healthy to subsidize the unhealthy through mandates. What am I missing?

Nothing, that's the whole point of the mandate, get the young and healthy to subsidize the care of those who are older or unhealthy.

Regardless of whether or not the mandate survives a SCOTUS ruling, the fines are so small in the current law there's little incentive for younger, healthier people to comply anyway. The responsible folks who maintain coverage will pick up the tab through higher insurance rates and fees for treatment.

 

[Bob]

Nothing, that's the whole point of the mandate, get the young and healthy to subsidize the care of those who are older or unhealthy.

Regardless of whether or not the mandate survives a SCOTUS ruling, the fines are so small in the current law there's little incentive for younger, healthier people to comply anyway. The responsible folks who maintain coverage will pick up the tab through higher insurance rates and fees for treatment.

so having risk spread out amongst larger numbers runs counter to the idea of insurance?

 

[BeachSiO2]

so having risk spread out amongst larger numbers runs counter to the idea of insurance?

I am confused. I am a relatively healthy 30ish male with no pre-existing conditions. Why should I buy insurance if I can get it the day I get sick or have to go to the hospital? Right now, I have insurance for the Chris Rock reason, "In case $hit happens." Now, if they pull the individual mandate then what is my impetus until I need it. Wouldn't this bankrupt the insurance business and thus lead more quickly to government run insurance.

In my scenario, everybody is on the wrong side of the issue if we are going to cover pre-existing conditions and sick people with no waiting time.

The liberals should want the mandate removed which would still require the private industry to cover everyone that wants insurance, which would consist mostly of pre-existing conditions and sick people. This would lead to rates exploding and likely a government takeover. While the conservatives should be pushing for the mandate and thus the private industry making huge windfalls with less risk. I must be missing something.

 

[scooterbug44]

You cannot buy insurance after you are sick/injured and have it apply retroactively, just as you cannot buy car insurance to cover the wreck you had yesterday or homeowner's insurance because someone fell on your driveway last week.

But they cannot refuse to sell you car insurance just because you had a wreck prior, just as they will not be able to deny you health insurance coverage because of a prior injury.

 

[BeachSiO2]

You cannot buy insurance after you are sick/injured and have it apply retroactively, just as you cannot buy car insurance to cover the wreck you had yesterday or homeowner's insurance because someone fell on your driveway last week.

But they cannot refuse to sell you car insurance just because you had a wreck prior, just as they will not be able to deny you health insurance coverage because of a prior injury.

We're talking time frames. I can go see a doctor when I am sick for a hundred bucks or so and him say, we need to run some tests for cancer, then we schedule them. Before I go back, I will dang sure have bought my insurance, in case $hit happens and I have cancer. I agree that you would be taking on the risk of what could happen today but I would imagine a great number of people will take on that risk if you can get insurance tomorrow.

I am not disagreeing that pre-existing conditions should be covered but I don't see how the numbers work for private industry to do it without a mandate. My brother in law just got out of the hospital after being sick for about a month, part of that time was in ICU. He had insurance but if he did not have insurance but been able to get it the day before he was admitted then the insurance companies would have been screwed as he saw it coming.