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Walton County Votes to Keep Confederate Flag Flying

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Using a racial slur trump threatens to defund the military to protect bases named after confederate traitors who took up arms against our nation to kill hundreds of thousands of US troops in support of slavery. Why does the party of Lincoln idolize the men who wanted him dead?
 
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Poppaj, I think we have extremely divisive leadership. Maybe we can agree on that. If the republican party is the only problem then we should all do what we can do to elect a democrat. So what does that mean? It means being respectful ambassadors.

Yes, I agree that the "symbols" of the Confederacy have been hijacked by a group of people who I no longer understand. That said, you and I are not able to have a civil conversation about the Confederacy and end up being disrespectful and cruel (both of us). Maybe it is male ego but it is ridiculous that we resort to calling each other names. It moves us away from social change and hardens our imperfections which is the opposite of what needs to happen.

Bob Wells, Many of our founders had plantations and owned slaves including Jefferson. I listed a few of the others in an earlier post. When people learn how Abraham Lincoln felt about people of color I honestly do not know what is going to happen with The Lincoln Memorial. I am going by what he said in a debate with Judge Douglas in Freeport, Illinois:

Now gentlemen, I don't want to read at any greater length, but this is the true complexion of all I have ever said in regard to the institution of slavery and the black race. This is the whole of it, and anything that argues me into his idea of perfect social and political equality with the negro, is but a specious and fantastic arrangement of words, by which a man can prove a horse chestnut to be a chestnut horse. [Laughter.] I will say here, while upon this subject, that I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and the black races. There is a physical difference between the two, which in my judgment will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong, having the superior position. I have never said anything to the contrary, but I hold that notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. [Loud cheers.] I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects---certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment.

Okay so do we hate Lincoln for those views of the negro or do we accept that that history is not a perfect collection of moral behavior? There is more to that debate that everyone should read before we start blaming the Confederacy and the South for all of racism. Lincoln stated that in terms of slavery the South is no different than the North. The intersection of truth and history is hard to accept but we should pursue truth...
 
You missed it. The story here is the president* threatening to veto the National Defense Authorization Act over a petty grievance. Doesn’t matter the subject of the grievance.
 
Poppaj, It is amazing the length at you will go to avoid the truth. Maybe you are in denial but you might want to be aware of the hypocrisy. Nothing matters to you except your opinion. Not even the truth of racism, white supremacy, bigotry and human equality as it relates to many people we call GREAT and then we build great monuments from which to show our respect...
 
I'm not interested in repeating my own thoughts and opinions on this subject. But I am listening and learning. May we be willing to seek the essays of others instead of publishing our own old and limited ideas.

Listen to the words of this woman, author of a recent NYT Op Ed, and featured on Lawrence O’Donnell regarding her powerful piece. Keep listening and learning to understand the story behind Black Lives and Confederate monuments.

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You Want a Confederate Monument? My Body Is a Confederate Monument

The black people I come from were owned and raped by the white people I come from. Who dares to tell me to celebrate them?

By Caroline Randall Williams
June 26, 2020

I have rape-colored skin. My light-brown-blackness is a living testament to the rules, the practices, the causes of the Old South.

If there are those who want to remember the legacy of the Confederacy, if they want monuments, well, then, my body is a monument. My skin is a monument.

Dead Confederates are honored all over this country — with cartoonish private statues, solemn public monuments and even in the names of United States Army bases. It fortifies and heartens me to witness the protests against this practice and the growing clamor from serious, nonpartisan public servants to redress it. But there are still those — like President Trumpand the Senate majority leader,Mitch McConnell — who cannot understand the difference between rewriting and reframing the past. I say it is not a matter of “airbrushing” history, but of adding a new perspective.

I am a black, Southern woman, and of my immediate white male ancestors, all of them were rapists. My very existence is a relic of slavery and Jim Crow.

According to the rule of hypodescent (the social and legal practice of assigning a genetically mixed-race person to the race with less social power) I am the daughter of two black people, the granddaughter of four black people, the great-granddaughter of eight black people. Go back one more generation and it gets less straightforward, and more sinister. As far as family history has always told, and as modern DNA testing has allowed me to confirm, I am the descendant of black women who were domestic servants and white men who raped their help.

It is an extraordinary truth of my life that I am biologically more than half white, and yet I have no white people in my genealogy in living memory. No. Voluntary. Whiteness. I am more than half white, and none of it was consensual. White Southern men — my ancestors — took what they wanted from women they did not love, over whom they had extraordinary power, and then failed to claim their children.

What is a monument but a standing memory? An artifact to make tangible the truth of the past. My body and blood are a tangible truth of the South and its past. The black people I come from were owned by the white people I come from. The white people I come from fought and died for their Lost Cause. And I ask you now, who dares to tell me to celebrate them? Who dares to ask me to accept their mounted pedestals?

You cannot dismiss me as someone who doesn’t understand. You cannot say it wasn’t my family members who fought and died. My blackness does not put me on the other side of anything. It puts me squarely at the heart of the debate. I don’t just come from the South. I come from Confederates. I’ve got rebel-gray blue blood coursing my veins. My great-grandfather Will was raised with the knowledge that Edmund Pettus was his father. Pettus, the storied Confederate general, the grand dragon of the Ku Klux Klan, the man for whom Selma’s Bloody Sunday Bridge is named. So I am not an outsider who makes these demands. I am a great-great-granddaughter.

And here I’m called to say that there is much about the South that is precious to me. I do my best teaching and writing here. There is, however, a peculiar model of Southern pride that must now, at long last, be reckoned with.

This is not an ignorant pride but a defiant one. It is a pride that says, “Our history is rich, our causes are justified, our ancestors lie beyond reproach.” It is a pining for greatness, if you will, a wish again for a certain kind of American memory. A monument-worthy memory.

But here’s the thing: Our ancestors don’t deserve your unconditional pride. Yes, I am proud of every one of my black ancestors who survived slavery. They earned that pride, by any decent person’s reckoning. But I am not proud of the white ancestors whom I know, by virtue of my very existence, to be bad actors.

Among the apologists for the Southern cause and for its monuments, there are those who dismiss the hardships of the past. They imagine a world of benevolent masters, and speak with misty eyes of gentility and honor and the land. They deny plantation rape, or explain it away, or question the degree of frequency with which it occurred.

To those people it is my privilege to say, I am proof. I am proof that whatever else the South might have been, or might believe itself to be, it was and is a space whose prosperity and sense of romance and nostalgia were built upon the grievous exploitation of black life.

The dream version of the Old South never existed. Any manufactured monument to that time in that place tells half a truth at best. The ideas and ideals it purports to honor are not real. To those who have embraced these delusions: Now is the time to re-examine your position.

Either you have been blind to a truth that my body’s story forces you to see, or you really do mean to honor the oppressors at the expense of the oppressed, and you must at last acknowledge your emotional investment in a legacy of hate.

Either way, I say the monuments of stone and metal, the monuments of cloth and wood, all the man-made monuments, must come down. I defy any sentimental Southerner to defend our ancestors to me. I am quite literally made of the reasons to strip them of their laurels.

Caroline Randall Williams(@caroranwill) is the author of “Lucy Negro, Redux” and “Soul Food Love,” and a writer in residence at Vanderbilt University.

Opinion | You Want a Confederate Monument? My Body Is a Confederate Monument
 
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Poppaj, I listed all the founders who owned slaves. I quoted Abraham Lincoln's belief in the "negro" and the truth of how slavery came into existence in the Colonies. All I am saying is that slavery, white supremacy, bigotry, racism etc is OUR American Heritage. All those sins did not come from one geographic area, one political party or from one heritage. Truth is most of the sins of this country came from white male's with money and power. Maybe we should remove all monuments that represent the white male and take away certain privileges that society has allowed. If we take down one monument and believe we have redeemed ourselves that would be short sided, hypocritical and have failed to learn anything. My respect for the monuments is essentially a respect for those that made the ultimate sacrifice for something bigger than themselves. We are not debating whether slavery is right or wrong or any of those other sins. All sins are wrong. We are debating whether or not to have any respect for any monument of American Heritage that is associated with slavery, racism, white supremacy or bigotry. To pin all our slavery sins on one part of our history is not the truth.

Teresa, I have read this and this is what stands out "white male ancestors". White males are to blame for these sins. When we focus only on the Confederacy we completely give all other white males a way out. This is why it is important to get it right because white males are the problem. Yes, as a white male I am the problem. For years I made excuses for my race and gender justifying our destructive side of our history. Well, my wife explained to me what it is like to be female in this society and then said to multiply that inequality and oppression by 100 to get back to the 1800's. We white males owe many people and all women more than removing a Confederate monument. I have two daughters and one grand daughter. I will spend the end of my life supporting and empowering women with my votes, with my voice with my ability to change and learn. The question is how do we change and learn if we get the history wrong. When we start removing only the Confederate monuments we encourage hypocrisy and let too many of us off the hook. The dream version of our American History is that the North fought against slavery and the South fought for slavery and the slaves won, the sins of our founders are given a pass and the sins of racism only existed in the South. As General Sherman marched through the South his Union Soldiers raped both white and black women and girls. Lincoln was aware of this and both justified it as "war time" behaviors. The horrible truth is both white and male and lived in the North, the South, the East and the West. I hope the changes that are on the horizon will be that ALL women will hold more power and will not let the sins of our "white male ancestors" be erased...
 
Poppaj, I listed all the founders who owned slaves. I quoted Abraham Lincoln's belief in the "negro" and the truth of how slavery came into existence in the Colonies. All I am saying is that slavery, white supremacy, bigotry, racism etc is OUR American Heritage. All those sins did not come from one geographic area, one political party or from one heritage. Truth is most of the sins of this country came from white male's with money and power. Maybe we should remove all monuments that represent the white male and take away certain privileges that society has allowed. If we take down one monument and believe we have redeemed ourselves that would be short sided, hypocritical and have failed to learn anything. My respect for the monuments is essentially a respect for those that made the ultimate sacrifice for something bigger than themselves. We are not debating whether slavery is right or wrong or any of those other sins. All sins are wrong. We are debating whether or not to have any respect for any monument of American Heritage that is associated with slavery, racism, white supremacy or bigotry. To pin all our slavery sins on one part of our history is not the truth.

Teresa, I have read this and this is what stands out "white male ancestors". White males are to blame for these sins. When we focus only on the Confederacy we completely give all other white males a way out. This is why it is important to get it right because white males are the problem. Yes, as a white male I am the problem. For years I made excuses for my race and gender justifying our destructive side of our history. Well, my wife explained to me what it is like to be female in this society and then said to multiply that inequality and oppression by 100 to get back to the 1800's. We white males owe many people and all women more than removing a Confederate monument. I have two daughters and one grand daughter. I will spend the end of my life supporting and empowering women with my votes, with my voice with my ability to change and learn. The question is how do we change and learn if we get the history wrong. When we start removing only the Confederate monuments we encourage hypocrisy and let too many of us off the hook. The dream version of our American History is that the North fought against slavery and the South fought for slavery and the slaves won, the sins of our founders are given a pass and the sins of racism only existed in the South. As General Sherman marched through the South his Union Soldiers raped both white and black women and girls. Lincoln was aware of this and both justified it as "war time" behaviors. The horrible truth is both white and male and lived in the North, the South, the East and the West in every century of our existence. I hope the changes that are on the horizon will be that ALL women will hold more power and will not let the sins of our "white male ancestors" be erased...
 
I haven't raped, beaten, imprisoned, tortured or killed a Karen.
I comment mainly to encourage you to tighten up a bit, this is very loose and leaves you open to attack. It strongly implies that you have raped, imprisoned, tortured, or killed things that aren’t a Karen.
 
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