House Democrats Not to take Obama/GOP tax bill

[beachFool]

It happens, 8-12% back in the late 90's. This CBO report has a wealth of data -

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/65xx/doc6512/07-06-EstateTax.pdf

I think the reason why liberals love this tax so much is its progressivity.

A. There is a big difference between paying taxes and losing the farm.

B. In the late 90s, the estate tax exemption was too low at 650K-675K so logically more estates were subject to it. I am glad it was raised.

C. You "think"....don't strain your brain. The estate tax is far from progessive...in fact it is a FLAT tax.

 

[scooterbug44]

Regardless, any lawyer can easily (and not that expensively) tell you how to legally plan for it so it becomes a minor or non-issue.

It's certainly worth the cost of one or 2 lawyer visits to shield up to $20 million in assets IMO.

Papa Scooterbug says his plan is to just spend all his money before he dies, but realistically he has taken action to avoid many of the taxes.

 

[Smiling JOe]

Maybe that's the problem with it. Today's tax codes provide ways for people to escape taxes. Let's face it, the tax code isn't written to pay for our spending. It's created to protect certain industries/people. When one has to hire and attorney or accountant to see how they can get the best deal on his or her taxes, there is a problem with the basic structure of the tax code. Make it simple and fair for all.

 

[30ashopper]

A. There is a big difference between paying taxes and losing the farm.

B. In the late 90s, the estate tax exemption was too low at 650K-675K so logically more estates were subject to it. I am glad it was raised.

C. You "think"....don't strain your brain. The estate tax is far from progessive...in fact it is a FLAT tax.

Not according to that report from the CBO. You need to stop spouting off and do a little reading, then ease up, relax a little and switch to decaf.

 

[beachFool]

Not according to that report from the CBO. You need to stop spouting off and do a little reading, then ease up, relax a little and switch to decaf.

Correcting you ALL the time gets old.

From unbiased investopedia:

Progressive Tax Definition

What Does Progressive Tax Mean?
A tax that takes a larger percentage from the income of high-income people than it does from low-income people.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The estate tax is flat. It stays the same for all who face estate tax liability.

OTOH, the income tax rates are progessive.

 

[Linda]

Buz,

You might want to check out this NPR interview from today with Columbia Law School's Michael Graetz who says that "the estate tax is the most progressive tax in our tax system".

How We Got From Estate Tax To 'Death Tax' : The Two-Way : NPR
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...ry-of-how-we-got-from-estate-tax-to-death-tax

Here is Mr. Graetz's bio just in case you think he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Michael J. Graetz

Justus S. Hotchkiss Professor Emeritus of Law and Professorial Lecturer in Law
Michael Graetz is the Justus S. Hotchkiss Professor Emeritus of Law and Professorial Lecturer in Law at Yale Law School. His specialties include taxation, tax policy, health law and policy, and income security law and policy. Prior to coming to Yale, he taught at Georgetown, Virginia, the University of Southern California, and the California Institute of Technology; he also served in the U.S. Treasury in Washington, D.C. in the early 1990s. His books on taxation include 100 Million Unnecessary Returns: A Simple, Fair, and Competitive Tax Plan for the United States, Death by A Thousand Cuts and The Decline and Fall of the Income Tax. Professor Graetz received his B.B.A. from Emory University and his LL.B from the University of Virginia.
Education
LL.B., University of Virginia, 1969
B.B.A., Emory, 1966

Courses Taught
Designing Public Institutions
Federal Income Taxation
Reconstruction from the Right
The Seeds of Transformation

 

[beachFool]

Buz,

You might want to check out this NPR interview from today with Columbia Law School's Michael Graetz who says that "the estate tax is the most progressive tax in our tax system".

How We Got From Estate Tax To 'Death Tax' : The Two-Way : NPR
How We Got From Estate Tax To 'Death Tax' : The Two-Way : NPR

Here is Mr. Graetz's bio just in case you think he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Michael J. Graetz

Justus S. Hotchkiss Professor Emeritus of Law and Professorial Lecturer in Law
Michael Graetz is the Justus S. Hotchkiss Professor Emeritus of Law and Professorial Lecturer in Law at Yale Law School. His specialties include taxation, tax policy, health law and policy, and income security law and policy. Prior to coming to Yale, he taught at Georgetown, Virginia, the University of Southern California, and the California Institute of Technology; he also served in the U.S. Treasury in Washington, D.C. in the early 1990s. His books on taxation include 100 Million Unnecessary Returns: A Simple, Fair, and Competitive Tax Plan for the United States, Death by A Thousand Cuts and The Decline and Fall of the Income Tax. Professor Graetz received his B.B.A. from Emory University and his LL.B from the University of Virginia.
Education
LL.B., University of Virginia, 1969
B.B.A., Emory, 1966

Courses Taught
Designing Public Institutions
Federal Income Taxation
Reconstruction from the Right
The Seeds of Transformation

It would not be the first time I ever disagreed with an attorney over the estate tax or estate planning.

Hopefully it will not be the last.

With that I bid you goodnight.

 

[Jdarg]

Andy, you should not make stuff up.

Speaking anecdotally as a farm owner it is a complete and total myth that family farms are lost due to the inheritance tax.

It does not happen.

The reality is family farms are lost due to incompetence or bad business decisions by succeeding generations. In my family, alcohol cost heirs WAY more than any estate tax.

A few years ago I asked my dad, who begin a career as a consultant forester after being discharged from the Marine Corps in 1954, if he had any clients who had to sell timberland due to the estate tax.

Negative, zip, zero, nada

So in approximately 1/2 a century he knew of no instances where the estate tax caused heirs to lose their land.

Family farms/small businesses being impacted by the estate tax is a ruse. For instance, there are several sections of the tax code where farms get relief from estate taxes.

It is true small businesses and farms who do a poor job of planning pay more estate taxes. As a financial professional that falls into the category of bad business decisions.

Personally, the estate tax exemption due to impact estates in 2011 thanks to the Bush tax cuts was/is much too low.

My family had a farm that was lost through bad planning and too many heirs to split the debt as it passed through generations- and this is how many farms are lost. Things are great when there is one owner, then the next generation has 3 owners, then there are 7 grandkids, then one grandkid doesn't want to foot the bill for the others or can't buy them out- you see where this is going.

I know quite a few people who lost family farms that had been in the families for generations- estate taxes weren't the reason, that's for sure.

 

[Andy A]

Regardless, any lawyer can easily (and not that expensively) tell you how to legally plan for it so it becomes a minor or non-issue.

It's certainly worth the cost of one or 2 lawyer visits to shield up to $20 million in assets IMO.

Papa Scooterbug says his plan is to just spend all his money before he dies, but realistically he has taken action to avoid many of the taxes.

Its my plan, too, though I'll never make it as I am too frugal (another word for tight). Additionally, I'll never have that much money. The correction to the amount of inheiritance that is taxable help aliviate the problem I spoke of earlier. It still remains that our tax code should be done away with and a totally new one written. That won't happen as the IRS employes too many people but it would be nice.

 

[idlewind]

The entire discussion on the extension of tax cuts, from the Bush tax cuts to the estate taxes to the Social Security taxes illustrate what is wrong fundementally with this country. Democrats (Bush tax cuts) and Republicans ( Social Security tax) both talk like the money taxpayers pay to the government belongs to the government. That is wrong, that money belongs to we the people. When conservatives protest high taxes and demand fair taxation, the liberals began the chant " what about the deficit?" Why were liberals not concerned with the deficit when they were borrowing trillions of dollars to spend. But to answer, I want government at all levels to determine how much money they need to provide the narrow range of services they are mandated to provide and then charge all of us the taxes needed to pay for those services. In the Federal governments case I also want them to collect enough to begin paying down the debt. But I want the method of collection to be fair and for everyone to equally share in the cost of government.