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The Presidential debates.
- Thread starter Hop
- Start date
Why in the world can't the President of the United States of America explain why Supply Side economics does not WORK when money is being hoarded by wealthy corporations? I believe that the President should hire Lake View Too to help explain a fairly simple economic fact regarding what affects our present day economy. Supply side economics is over and will never work again as long as we allow corporations to grow into economic monsters. The voters just need to be educated enough to make the right choices. I have lost faith in President Obama in his ability to communicate but there are 4 weeks left!
Lake View Too
SoWal Insider
I have always though that the Democrats assume that people are more intelligent and informed than they (we) really are. They assume that we are not believing the falsehoods. Hence they try not talk down to their constituents by explaining the obvious. An interesting point that came out in Micheal Lewis's article about hanging out with Obama was that "he never watches any cable news; he thinks that stuff will turn your mind to mush." That may well be the case, but the President should pay some attention to cable news just to know "the state of the mush", ya know? He and his advisers should stop and just try to understand that no matter how much the facts will matter in the coming years, only the feelings will count in the election. The reason Romney did so well in the debates is that he suddenly moderated his position, and said 20% tax cuts. Who doesn't want to hear that? The reality is the tax cuts will be untenable, even with draconian spending cuts, and four years from now, when the rich are so deeply richer, PBS is crippled, and they have unlimited super-pac money, they will have virtually taken over the media.
I have heard that reasoning before and I do not believe it answers the question. People are not stupid, uninformed or "that" gullable. It is that reasoning that actually excacerbates this divide within our country. I have a professional degree and I never perfectly understand where the "numbers" come from and what they mean. If you really believe that most people are just too stupid and lazy to get it then you would be part of the problem but I would rather believe that you are just frustrated with the democratic party. That explanation would indicate that the democratic party and our President suffers from elitism which maybe worse for society than religious intolerance. Main street America live a completely different lifestyle than these politicians. If the politicians are so removed from what affects us day in and day out including where we get our "information" and how limited in time and "desire" to try and figure out the BS then they deserve to be defeated in elections. To just call the people who do not see things the same way as uninformed and stupid indicates the inherent problem which is an unwillingness to get in the trenches with the people. It is not an easy thing to always figure out what the candidates are saying in a speech and try to connect the dots with their on lives. Most people have discovered that what a candidate says in a speech does not translate to anything that will ever affect their life even though it sounds good. Politicians speek a lot of words but can not back them up even if they believe it which many times they don't and are only telling us what we want to hear. Campaigns are designed to confuse us with BS because the more BS the less likely we will have the time to figure it out. In this debate neither candidate gave accurate information but Mitt was a much better BS itter. Statistical data can be manipulated and spun into nothing but BS. The quantum particle theory is alive and well in politics- a truth can also be an untruth...
By the way why do you think Mitt got such a big bump in the polls after the debate? If you believe it is from the idiots who have no brain then you would be wrong. He got a bump because he moved toward the middle where most of us live...Now the question becomes is he just full of BS or has he seen the light?
Lake View Too
SoWal Insider
But simply because he "moved towards the middle", suddenly, after four years of campaigning otherwise, doesn't make it anything I can believe in. Doesn't the "47% speech", in his own words, behind locked doors, tell you how he really feels?
He won the debate because he used buzz words like 20% tax cuts, increased defense spending, and revenue neutral that he cannot possibly reconcile.
You said yourself the people cannot possibly sift through the overload of information and misinformation we are bombarded with, so we are left to make these decisions on a more emotional level than an intellectual level. I don't think most people are morons, they are simply too busy trying to make a living to really understand the incredibly complex issues that plague this country.
Obama was trying to use reality and facts in the debate, and Romney was using platitudes and rhetoric, and the American public, viewing this as another game show, gave the victory to the more energetic performer.
We are no longer a reality-based society. Style will almost always trump substance, these days.
He won the debate because he used buzz words like 20% tax cuts, increased defense spending, and revenue neutral that he cannot possibly reconcile.
You said yourself the people cannot possibly sift through the overload of information and misinformation we are bombarded with, so we are left to make these decisions on a more emotional level than an intellectual level. I don't think most people are morons, they are simply too busy trying to make a living to really understand the incredibly complex issues that plague this country.
Obama was trying to use reality and facts in the debate, and Romney was using platitudes and rhetoric, and the American public, viewing this as another game show, gave the victory to the more energetic performer.
We are no longer a reality-based society. Style will almost always trump substance, these days.
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Listen, intellectually I believe Mitt is full of BS but emotionally I want to believe that he has seen the light. The American people have to make a decision in 4 weeks and if the democrats can not figure out how to utilize visual media to get their fundamental ideals across as a contrast to what the republicans are proposing then they will lose. Obama won 4 years ago on style and Mitt has suddenly figured that out. Obama's facts were not accurate and neither was Mitt's. Reality is in the "eyes" of the beholder making style very important. In this debate Obama flat got beat on style. I was shocked to be honest. Style is important because our facts are so distorted. Style is important because it bridges or connects with people with each other. If someone can not speak with style and appropriate mannerism do you think anyone will listen to them or even believe them? I think the republicans have the economic ideals wrong but right now we need someone to get congress working again. If Obama can not do it we need to find someone else. To get my vote Obama would have to convince me (and he has time) that he is going to "change" his approach toward congress and bombard me with buzz words and graphs of real "facts". Some of those facts will show failures of his administration but I really believe that people will connect with the truth. The contrast of two very different explanations of what is wrong with the economy and what it will take to fix it is right before him and we are waiting to see and hear it.
Andy A
Beach Fanatic
I think I'll jump in here and start by saying LS, as usual, wants to trash Mitt because he is a Republican and evidently can't stand someone who is so successful. The statement was made that corportations and the wealthy are sitting on billions of dollars and not spending them. That is probably correct. If Mitt Romney is elected, I strongly believe you will see a ground swell of money being put back into the economy and employment will rise. I will at this point ask a question of all of those employers out there. Are you doing any hiring or are you waiting to see the results of the election? Corporations and individuals alike are sitting on their money because they have no idea what this administration is going to do next to hamper their operations. It is not just President Obama, it is the bureaucracy in D.C.that continues to make regulations that are useless in the hope of furthering their particular agenda. It is not just the Presidency that need change in Washington and I hope that will happen but also the complete tone exhibited by those inside the beltway. We need change now and you who really follow the economy and politics know all the reasons why.
Lake View Too
SoWal Insider
I have noticed a couple of times that you have referred to "Obama's approach towards Congress". I really see it as congress's attitude towards Obama. They have played obstructionism to the hilt. They would not even let the Simpson-Boles recommendations be introduced into the House to be considered. They would not even consider the 3 to 1 compromise Obama offered in spending cuts to tax increases. They only passed the mildness half of Obama's Jobs Bill. The entire Republican establishment from day one, four years ago, has placed the importance of making Obama ineffective, way beyond the importance of doing what's right for this country.
I hope that no one is voting for Mitt because he has found a way to be financially successful at the middle classes expense. He is not a job creator but I do agree with Andy A in that if Mitt is elected corporations and the wealthy will spend some of those billions and not because of deregulation but because they support anyone who will help them pay less taxes. They have already corrupted regulation and therefore not as big a factor as one might think. I predict the economy will grow short term and will create another bubble and when that bubble pops we all better have some money stashed away like the wealthy because this will not be a pop but a collapse. There is nothing that I can see in Ryan's plan or Mitt's plan that will strengthen the middle class. I do not think the wealthy gives a rats you know what about the middle class. I am leaving the door open for either one of them to convince me that they have a plan to stabalize our economy with a strong middle class. Federal spending is a problem. Tax structure is a problem. Corporate wellfare is a problem. Abuse of our entitlement programs is a problem. Wall street is a problem. Monopolization is a problem. Corporate control of our economic system is a problem. Corporate control of our political system is a problem (lobbyist write most of our laws). If Obama is elected I see a congress that remains dysfunctional. If Mitt is elected I see cooperation in congress that will get things done but the things they get done will eventually collapse our economy. Lets hope I am wrong about Mitt and Ryan because I believe they will be elected.