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The Presidential debates.

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Romney continues to mislead the American people. He has changed his position on dozens of issues, less than a month before the election. You have no idea what this man will do in the Whitehouse. He has advocated war with Iran, and intervention in Syria, for God's sake. He wants to increase the defense budget by 10%. His stated tax policy is to lessen the tax burden on wealthy people!

But, let's take his refusal to release his tax returns for the last ten years. He released exactly one tax return that had his effective tax rate at 14%. There is absolutely no logical reason for him not to release the others, unless they were less than 14%. So they could be 12%, 10%, 8%... doesn't this bother you? And he is advocating decreasing all wealthy people's tax burden to near 1%! This is not hyperbole. This is fact. And just a perpetuation of the myth of supply side economics that led to the financial collapse in the last years of the last Republican administration. You have to remember what caused the collapse: tax cuts for the rich, and de-regulation of the financial industry. Both of these are being advocated by Romney.

As for the divisiveness, do you think this is Obama's fault? There is videotape, from the very first week of Obama'a administration, of both Mitt Romney and Mitch McConnell, as well as Rush Limbaugh, saying that their number one priority is to see that Obama fails.

Obviously, you are a Republican, who has believed the right-wing rhetoric. I have mentioned Obama's attempts at compromise on the budget (the 3 to 1 deal, and the Boles Simpson recommendations ) and I have heard no response from you on that. I clearly see the divisiveness as having come, overwhelmingly,from the right.

I do appreciate this discussion we have had. It really has helped me clarify in my mind why it is important to vote against Romney in this election. Your choice, by your own admission, is illogical. Voting for Romney, in hopes that he will fail, does not make sense. Voting for Romney, even though he repeatedly changes every position he has ever had, sounds downright frightening.
 
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I think Romney's selection of Paul Ryan as a running mate gives some idea of where Romney might be headed. If Romney is elected in November, no doubt that will increase Paul Ryan's chances of one day being President. I have every reason to think that Romney will be pressured to pave the way for his possible successor. This sounds like almost a reverse of the Reagan/Bush ticket of 1980 in which Bush was forced to evolve his more moderate stances to conform to Reagan's philosopy. Romney's core values and positions are like moldable putty, so I don't see him as being the driver. Romney is the one who is going to get schooled and groomed. The most disturbing part is that the inevitable economic recovery, which will occur regardless of who is elected, will be inextricably linked to the policies of Romney/Ryan.
 
Obviously, I am completely disenchanted with both parties. Obviously, it is important for some to trench their position. I agree with LS that it is quite possible Romney is being molded by others. I agree with LVT that there is a history from Romney that is disturbing. All I am trying to say is that if the person I vote for does not get elected I will not believe the sky will fall and I will not become a hater. I never listen to Rush Limbaugh. I listen to NPR (would probably have to increase my contributions if Romney is elected). I am a republican as for as voter registration because I believe in less Federal intrusion into my life. I am a democrat on many social and economic issues. Many would say that I could not really be a part of either party with my logic and they would be dead on. I have been turned off by the tea party. I have been turned off by those elitist that think everyone must be stupid if they can not see through the BS of the tea party who have taken the republican party hostage. If Romney wins and then his economic policies fail, yes I do believe it would damage the tea party. I do not need either side telling me how to vote and I will not vote out of fear of doomsday. I do have strong feelings about the economy and I think the republicans have it wrong however I am not going to look down on those people who work for a living and are so desparate to get our country moving again that they will vote against the current administration. Obama is not immune from what is wrong with congress and he has political advisors and campaign contributors too. Obama has made mistakes and he admits them which appeal to me but Romney has admitted to mistakes too. Anyone who believes that either one of these candidates are sinister are just plain wrong and will have missed my point. I encourage people to vote for Obama if you think he deserves another term (which I do) or please vote for Romney if you believe he can turn the economy around (which I don't). I just encourage people to vote. If Obama wins I believe the tea party gets stronger-just sayin...
 
Well, I understand you quite a bit better now. Did anybody read what Rand Paul had to say about Romney's plan to increase defense spending and increase foreign invention overseas? I read it on the Daily Beast, but it must be elsewhere also. It was rather striking how he strongly differed from Romney on this, and sided with Obama. It was possibly the only good thing I have ever heard Rand Paul say, and it alters the game in an interesting, and unpredictable way.
 
I think it went well. I think Biden had a command of the facts and was able to refute Ryan at every turn. He also had an emotional and compassion connection to the people who stand to lose the most in this election, the middle class. I thought he laid out in bold language the differences in the tax plans.
 
I've decided I'm not watching any more debates unless the two parties are hooked up to lie detectors! :clap:
 
Good points. How did it go last night?

Unlike Obama vs. Romney, this one will be divided, mostly, along partisan lines. No clear winner or loser.

Biden did have one major misstep, though, when he said that the administration was not aware of any additional security requests for Bengazi despite testimony from two state department officials that they had received and denied those requests.

They are playing the cleanup game this morning on that point...
 
I saw this on another site that sums it up.....


So, from what I have seen in this thread, Facebook, and the TV shows, it appears that if you were going to vote for Romney, you think that Ryan won the debate.  And if you were going to vote for Obama, you think that Biden won the debate.  And if you were undecided, then you're saying something like "I can't believe this is what we're stuck with."
 
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