Arizona congresswoman among 18 shot at Tuscon grocery

[futurebeachbum]

Federal Charges Filed

From the NYT article U.S. Cites Evidence of Assassination Plot:

Prosecutors accused Jared Lee Loughner, a troubled 22-year-old college dropout, of five serious federal charges on Sunday, including the attempted assassination of a member of Congress
...
Court documents filed in the U.S. District Court in Phoenix indicated that evidence seized from Mr. Loughner?s home showed that he had planned to kill Representative Gabrielle Giffords
...
The court documents say that Mr. Loughner purchased the semiautomatic Glock pistol used at the shooting at Sportsman?s Warehouse in Tucson on Nov. 30....
...
Along with being accused of deliberating trying to take Ms. Giffords? life, Mr. Loughner was charged with the killing and attempted killing of four United States government officials, among them U.S. District Judge John M. Roll, who was killed; a congressional aide, Gabriel Zimmerman, who was also killed; and two congressional aides, Pamela Simon and Ron Barber, who were wounded.

Well, the good news is that we know that there is definitely a death penalty at the Federal Level.

Unfortunately, this guy is clearly crazy. As we saw with John Hinckley, Federal Courts are loathe to execute people who are obviously whacko.

 

[30ashopper]

From the NYT article U.S. Cites Evidence of Assassination Plot:



Well, the good news is that we know that there is definitely a death penalty at the Federal Level.

Unfortunately, this guy is clearly crazy. As we saw with John Hinckley, Federal Courts are loathe to execute people who are obviously whacko.

Yeah. Sadly, if he is a paranoid schizoid slash manic depressant, there are very good medications for his condition. Had someone chosen to do something to help him rather than simply ignore all the warning signs this might have been avoided all together. First and foremost, what the heck were his parents doing about it? Maybe they should be charged as well.

 

[scooterbug44]

Meds only work when you get the help you need, can afford them, take them as directed, get the dosage right, and are one of the people they actually help.

 

[Arkiehawg]

Yeah. Sadly, if he is a paranoid schizoid slash manic depressant, there are very good medications for his condition. Had someone chosen to do something to help him rather than simply ignore all the warning signs this might have been avoided all together. First and foremost, what the heck were his parents doing about it? Maybe they should be charged as well.

So, your political beliefs include prosecuting parents for the actions of their adult children?:roll:

 

[Bob]

perhaps something can be learned here. scientists can study this mutant. maybe the right can tone down the gun rhetoric.

 

[30ashopper]

So, your political beliefs include prosecuting parents for the actions of their adult children?:roll:

No but you would think they would have done something. The guy was living at home with them, and he'd been kicked out of the local college for unstable behavior. His parents even had a meeting with school administration. I can only guess but don't you think they should have taken him to a doctor? Maybe they did, who knows. It'll be interesting to see how this whole thing unwinds.

 

[LuciferSam]

Of course tighter background checks for gun purchase would help. Don't give me that baloney that criminals will always find a way to get guns. That's B.S., because a lot of the perps aren't criminals, no record. It's their first time. They don't have friends, connections, nothing. They're just certifiably disturbed. They walk into Guns R Us and get all they need. Gun dealer enthusiastically sells them an armory and says "It's about time you jumped on the bandwagon and got yourself some protection"

 

[beachmouse]

Yeah. Sadly, if he is a paranoid schizoid slash manic depressant, there are very good medications for his condition. Had someone chosen to do something to help him rather than simply ignore all the warning signs this might have been avoided all together. First and foremost, what the heck were his parents doing about it? Maybe they should be charged as well.

Unfortunately, public health services for the mentally ill have been gutted over the past 30 years.

As for parents, he's a legal adult, and there isn't much you can do other than involuntary psych hold to force said legal adult to get help. Giving him a 'get treatment or you're kicked out of the house' ultimatum isn't going to help if the guy decides to take the homeless couch surfer route.

 

[Arkiehawg]

While I support gun owners rights, I also believe that some states are way to lax on background (or lack of) checks.

Regarding the AZ issue. While I know that a lot of the details have yet to be disclosed, it is becoming apparent that this kid was kicked out of the local community college in October for behavioral issues. It is even being reported that the college PD even documented that he would not be allowed to return without documentation from a physician that he was neither a harm to himself or others....

Back to the gun control point....IMO, anytime law enforcement deems someone potentially harmful to themselves or others why not do a review of the gun registry data base to see if they lawfully own guns. If so, removal of the weapons should be warranted until it is deemed that the person is no longer a threat. In this case, that would have at least kept him from using the legal weapon he had in his possession. Would it have stopped him from the act? Who knows, but without easy access to a weapon, he may not have acted...

I'm sure that my opinion will be slammed hard by some as socialistic, far left anti-gun, etc. but that fact of the matter is there are some people that should not have access/possession to guns regardless of one's interpretation of the constitution.

Additional information. It appears that the AZ case may support my statement from above. Evidently, the shooter purchased his Glock in November AFTER he was kicked out of the comm. college for his behavioral issues and being noticed by the college that he could only return with a physicians clearance of his mental behavior. Again, if the college PD documented this, why isn't there a background check system in place to prevent a legal purchase of weapons from someone so unstable? I would wager that he was never reported in the Federal directory as a risk by the PD....or the gun seller "brushed" through the background check....

This case is beginning to show the same type of smells of the VaTech debacle....

 

[beachFool]

In my "other" life, I knew a deeply involved, commode-hugging alcoholic where the background check nixed his gun purchase so background checks work.

I am a former hunter and I support gun ownership, however, there is NO need for a 30 round magazine for a handgun.

MAG-242 - Mag Factory Glock 9mm Holds 33 Rounds of 9mm Fits Models 17 or 19 or 26 Glock 9mm Handguns

The gun lobby opposes common-sense regulations like limiting the capacity of handguns.

A sidearm with a seven round magazine was good enough for the men who raised the flag at Iwo Jima.