Led away in Handcuffs

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

No. I would agree that the MHW line was established. Do you feel this line was solely established for gulf front owners?

Bobby, I believe you know (or should know) exactly why the line is established...to define the boundary between state owned submerged lands and either county or privately owned lands. It's so simple to me that maybe I'm overlooking something.

 

[scooterbug44]

So if the MHW line does "not define the rights associated with the deed to the property" as you mention above, then why in the world is it even discussed by you several times in the past as far the sheriff not being able to determine the delineation?

Because you can't even BEGIN to defend property rights you may or may not have until you can properly identify the basic boundaries of the property in question.

Sort of like trying to make your neighbor move a fence he "built on your property". Hard to do when you can't even figure out where the property line is.

"Mean high water line" is just a geographic/survey term to accommodate the variations of a body of water. It has no legal rights or implications by itself.

 

[Andy A]

Will you then refuse all public $ for beach restoration, hurricane relief, and stop building and armoring structures south of the Coastal Control Line?

On BMB, to the best of my knowlege, not one cent of public $ have yet been used for restoration, hurricane relief or any form of armoring. If you don't believe me on the armoring, you are welcome to take over my HELOC paymet for ours. By the way, the Florida Supreme Court is suppose to announce its decision on the Destin/Okaloosa beach renouishment program today, according to the NW Florida Daily News.

 

[Smiling JOe]

And we all know that Commissioner Larry Jones has the last say in everything to do with our county, don't we? PLEASE don't agree with me here.
:roll:

So if the MHW line does "not define the rights associated with the deed to the property" as you mention above, then why in the world is it even discussed by you several times in the past as far the sheriff not being able to determine the delineation?

It is just one of many points of how someone sitting on the beach could be considered to not be trespassing.

AGAIN, property rights are not without limits. The FL Supreme Court notes that the sandy, lower beach elevations which are considered beach, have different rights associated with that portion of property, than the upland portion of that same parcel.

 

[Smiling JOe]

By the way, the Florida Supreme Court is suppose to announce its decision on the Destin/Okaloosa beach renouishment program today, according to the NW Florida Daily News.

... and their decision will not likely decide this current issue of customary use by the public. It will likely only make the ruling on that portion of beach restored, which is typically from the MHWM seaward.

 

[BeachSiO2]

By the way, the Florida Supreme Court is suppose to announce its decision on the Destin/Okaloosa beach renouishment program today, according to the NW Florida Daily News.

Any guess would only be speculation and actually the NWFDNews said they are issued on Thursdays. For those who care, rulings are issued by noon and no one knows which rulings will be issued until after they are posted. A good example is one of the local tv stations all thought it would be the Wednesday before Thanksgiving and it wasn't. Its a well guarded secret.

But for public/private/nourished/restored beach junkies, tune in here every Thursday at noon:

http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/decisions/opinions.shtml

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

On BMB, to the best of my knowlege, not one cent of public $ have yet been used for restoration, hurricane relief or any form of armoring. If you don't believe me on the armoring, you are welcome to take over my HELOC paymet for ours. By the way, the Florida Supreme Court is suppose to announce its decision on the Destin/Okaloosa beach renouishment program today, according to the NW Florida Daily News.

Andy A, even though we may disagree about the private/public thing, at least you speak the truth. Thanks for responding to Scooterbug and setting her straight. I know she wouldn't believe me if I were to have said it.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

Hey BeachSiO2....you've been a little too quiet regarding a few of my posts that involved you.
1. You've made no comment about BMB being private (I don't believe). Or is the jury still out for margaritas?
2. Do we all really know each other? ;-)

Although not directed at you, but I know you are a MHWL expert (how can I ever forget your very informative MHWL lesson?).....
Can you PLEASE clarify Scooterbug's statement that she recently made as it applies to private beach? "Mean high water line" is just a geographic/survey term to accommodate the variations of a body of water. It has no legal rights or implications by itself.

And for the benefit of others, here's the link to the Destin Log article mentioned in the other post:
http://www.thedestinlog.com/articles/headline_articledisplay.php?a=4816&page=2

TIA.

 

[BlueMtnBeachVagrant]

It is just one of many points of how someone sitting on the beach could be considered to not be trespassing.

You're right.

AGAIN, property rights are not without limits.

You're right about that, also.

The FL Supreme Court notes that the sandy, lower beach elevations which are considered beach, have different rights associated with that portion of property, than the upland portion of that same parcel.

You're right about that, as well.

You're doing good SJ.

However, you haven't answered my question why one would worry about the MHWL when one insists the beach is public. If the beach is public, then one doesn't have to worry about the MHWL.

SJ, the only 2 possible answers I see are simple:
1. The beach is private and one needs to pay attention to the MHWL;
OR
2. The beach is public and it doesn't matter where the MHWL is.

It can't be both or some combination of, IMO.

 

[BeachSiO2]

Hey BeachSiO2....you've been a little too quiet regarding a few of my posts that involved you.
1. You've made no comment about BMB being private (I don't believe). Or is the jury still out for margaritas?
2. Do we all really know each other? ;-)

Although not directed at you, but I know you are a MHWL expert (how can I ever forget your very informative MHWL lesson?).....
Can you PLEASE clarify Scooterbug's statement that she recently made as it applies to private beach? "Mean high water line" is just a geographic/survey term to accommodate the variations of a body of water. It has no legal rights or implications by itself.

And for the benefit of others, here's the link to the Destin Log article mentioned in the other post:
http://www.thedestinlog.com/articles/headline_articledisplay.php?a=4816&page=2

TIA.

Actually I think I did address them when I said I wasn't a law student, attorney, land use attorney, or judge, but I will try again ;-)

I think that there are areas all along the Blue Mountain Beach area that are privately OWNED. It will be up to others to determine what is PRIVATE. Similar words with varied meanings since something can be privately-owned but not contain the entire bundle of rights another privately-owned piece of property might have. Uh-oh I sounded like an attorney there :leaving:

I think I know which condo/townhome you live in, but actually I wasn't referencing you in my post when I said people aren't as anonymous as they think they are.

I am no expert in the implications of the line. I just know how it is determined and the legal definition of it so you may want to ask SBug for a further explanation.

On a totally unrelated post but since you asked my "help" ;-) I thought I would remind you of public monies spent in Blue Mountain. I remember two specific examples. One was emergency beach scraping after Hurricane Ivan and Tropical Storm Arlene. Also, all the design, engineering, and permitting work that has been conducted as part of the Phase 2 Beach Project on the TDC's website. I would guess at least 2 million dollars have been spent on those efforts along the 30-A corridor, and Blue Mountain Beach has been included in those projects.