McCain's Freedom Destroying Bill

[scooterbug44]

I don't think I am fully understanding this thread - I don't have a problem with people taking supplements (which I do, some at the advice of medical professionals) or exploring other options for treatment besides pharmaceuticals.

But if people ARE taking these items INSTEAD of medicine, at the advice of someone with no medical training, or because of claimed benefits that are not verified or regulated I think it is potentially a big problem.

I worry that friends who take these products (especially the weight loss ones or cleanse ones) are harming themselves and get very frustrated when people think the advice of the freaking stock boy at Whole Foods trumps that of a physician.

Yes, pharmaceuticals are not the answer, but at least there is some regulation, testing, and they HAVE to tell you about side effects. Why should it be different for their substitutes?

Yes, the FDA needs a major shakeup and lobbyistectomy and cronyectomy. I would love to give big pharm a giant kick in the balls, but I also want people to be able to know and trust what they are putting into their bodies (including a change in the labeling laws of "organic, free-range" etc.).

 

[Matt J]

I agree with scooter. There's a big difference between someone who has 8 years of medical training and a guy with dread locks in a health food store.

P.S. If anyone has dread locks over at FTHOI this was not directed at you.

 

[Lynnie]

lobbyistectomy and cronyectomy

Classic!

 

[Susan Horn]

I don't think I am fully understanding this thread - I don't have a problem with people taking supplements (which I do, some at the advice of medical professionals) or exploring other options for treatment besides pharmaceuticals.

But if people ARE taking these items INSTEAD of medicine, at the advice of someone with no medical training, or because of claimed benefits that are not verified or regulated I think it is potentially a big problem.

I worry that friends who take these products (especially the weight loss ones or cleanse ones) are harming themselves and get very frustrated when people think the advice of the freaking stock boy at Whole Foods trumps that of a physician.

Yes, pharmaceuticals are not the answer, but at least there is some regulation, testing, and they HAVE to tell you about side effects. Why should it be different for their substitutes?

Yes, the FDA needs a major shakeup and lobbyistectomy and cronyectomy. I would love to give big pharm a giant kick in the balls, but I also want people to be able to know and trust what they are putting into their bodies (including a change in the labeling laws of "organic, free-range" etc.).

Good points. I guess my take is, I'd like to see the FDA fixed first, before we let them do a lousy job of regulating herbs and vitamins, and besides, a lot of herbs and such are already participating in the self-regulation of the USP standards.

I don't want to let these FDA folks (crooks? incompetents? a combination?) get hold of supplements until the whole agency, rules, etc. are revamped. In the meantime, folks who use supplements IMHO need to use some common sense and do their homework, and indeed, not put their health care decisions in the hands of the stock boy at the health food store! If they don't have any more sense than that, I'm not sure any laws or regulations can help them.

And while medical school does impart a great deal of knowledge to most graduates, there are certainly plenty of crummy docs who give out bad advice, miss diagnoses etc., and generally offer care that's about as good as the health food store stock boy. Med school generally teaches docs how to treat illness, not how to promote wellness, and certainly little or nothing about nutrition and natural therapies. IMHO that needs to change too, because I don't like having to recruit a whole team of health care pros to get what I feel is a balanced professional perspective --it's expensive and time consuming, but I do it because going strictly with mainstream allopathic docs and FDA approved therpies and meds has not worked for me, but when I combine them with natural approaches, that seems to work better.

What I'd really like to see is for the MD/pharma world and the complementary therapy/wellness world come together under one tent or one roof, quit bashing each other and start learning from each other for the greater good of their clients. Wouldn't it be great if MD's had acupuncturists, herbalists, etc. on staff and customers (that's what I consider myself, not a patient, I am a paying customer) would benefit from much broader knowledge and experience!

 

[30A Skunkape]

Good points. I guess my take is, I'd like to see the FDA fixed first, before we let them do a lousy job of regulating herbs and vitamins, and besides, a lot of herbs and such are already participating in the self-regulation of the USP standards.

I don't want to let these FDA folks (crooks? incompetents? a combination?) get hold of supplements until the whole agency, rules, etc. are revamped. In the meantime, folks who use supplements IMHO need to use some common sense and do their homework, and indeed, not put their health care decisions in the hands of the stock boy at the health food store! If they don't have any more sense than that, I'm not sure any laws or regulations can help them.

And while medical school does impart a great deal of knowledge to most graduates, there are certainly plenty of crummy docs who give out bad advice, miss diagnoses etc., and generally offer care that's about as good as the health food store stock boy. Med school generally teaches docs how to treat illness, not how to promote wellness, and certainly little or nothing about nutrition and natural therapies. IMHO that needs to change too, because I don't like having to recruit a whole team of health care pros to get what I feel is a balanced professional perspective --it's expensive and time consuming, but I do it because going strictly with mainstream allopathic docs and FDA approved therpies and meds has not worked for me, but when I combine them with natural approaches, that seems to work better.

What I'd really like to see is for the MD/pharma world and the complementary therapy/wellness world come together under one tent or one roof, quit bashing each other and start learning from each other for the greater good of their clients. Wouldn't it be great if MD's had acupuncturists, herbalists, etc. on staff and customers (that's what I consider myself, not a patient, I am a paying customer) would benefit from much broader knowledge and experience!

That would be mom's job!

 

[scooterbug44]

I don't think that is a fair characterization.

All my doctors/various health care providers have always advocated healthy lifestyle choices and preventative medicine - not smoking, eating fruits and vegetables and a balanced diet, getting enough sleep, limiting drinking, wearing seatbelts and bike helmets, frequent exercise (and not overdoing it), flossing, only taking medicine when necessary, washing hands, sitting up straight, using condoms, wearing shoes w/ arch support, not overdoi8ng the antibacterial items, you name it!

A few have also suggested dietary supplements like calcium or glucosamine-condroitin (which they said is not proven to work, but worth a try).

 

[Susan Horn]

That would be mom's job!

Hey Skunk, I disagree completely, especially in this era when so many moms work fulltime outside the home, and often haven't had much nutritional info themselves (I don't think they've been offering Home Ec in public schools for a couple of generations now).

I was fortunate in that I was able to self-educate about nutrition and wellness in my baby-having and child-rearing years, since much of the time I was blessed not to need to work outside the home for $$ (God Bless Hub for making that possible!). I could not have done a proper job of teaching the boys nutrition, wellness and so on if I'd had even a part time job.

Y'all don't have kids yet, do you? I know in my pre-parenthood days it was impossible for me to grasp how much time and mental-emotional-spiritual energy parenting required of friends who'd started their families before we did. Once I had children of my own, I learned right quick how all-consuming a career it is, and I totally get it now, how moms who also work outside the home -- especially single moms -- do not have time or energy to make all-fresh-from-scratch meals!

Scooterbug, lucky you for having docs that promoted healthy lifestyles. Some of mine have too, but they often come to that from a very general perspective and are not at all well versed in specifics for various conditions, at least not by comparison to other healthcare pros I've been to who focus more on prevention and wellness with specific, targeted recommendations and even teaching classes from time to time.

If some MDs don't want to promote wellness and prevention through educating their clients, it should not be alarming to anyone that more and more of their clients will spend at least part of their healthcare dollars with practitioners who will focus on wellness, prevention, nutrition, etc. That trend is already well-established, based on info I've been seeing over the last decade or two.

 

[scooterbug44]

Baloney - there are a ton of resources available and it's a matter of priorities.

Many parents work full time and still feed their children nutritious meals and teach them about nutrition. Maybe not psycho grow your own grain and grind it for home baked bread meals or Martha is jealous gourmet meals, but good decent food.

My parents both worked full-time and there was a home cooked meal on the table 99% of the time.

You can prep several days worth of nutritious dinners in the time it takes to watch an episode of American Idol and there are a wide variety of healthy meals that you can make in less than 15 minutes.

I am sure there are even multiple "apps" to help you shop and prepare them. :roll:

And I think it is unreasonable to expect your doctor to be an expert in every single aspect of your care including all alternate treatments - that is impossible and why they have specialties and specialists.

 

[Susan Horn]

Sounds like I may have hit a nerve. I'm okay with agreeing to disagree! No harm no foul?

 

[scooterbug44]

No major nerve! Sorry if if came off that way, I posted in a hurry and didn't think it was that radical.