Rubio at CPAC

[scooterbug44]

I won't defend the Republican Party when it comes to promoting individual freedom, but I will point out that social democrats have no business criticizing Republicans on the matter. Both groups infringe individual rights through their policies.

Have you READ the Patriot Act? NO comparison whatsoever!

 

[Andy A]

Have you READ the Patriot Act? NO comparison whatsoever!

When was the last time you were arrested and jailed for what you did in defiance of the Patriot Act? I haven't been questioned for any Patriot Act offense either, have you? Outrage and worry over loss of freedoms due the the Patriot Act are miniscule compared to many other ways it is possible to lose our freedoms that are now or soon will be in play.
It is time for Americans to wake up. I have a grandson who recently graduated from Okla. State University (Another "second rate" public school) with a 5 year degree in mechanical engineering technology and he can't find a job. All this social engineering nonsense is just that...nonsense. We need to do first things first and then mess with all those that don't matter. Get our economy back into some semblance of normality, our spending under control and our government back to a reasonable size and then we can worry about your loss of freedom under the Patriot Act.
And for those of you complaining about the "Teabaggers", I suggest you attend a party and find out what it is really all about before you start casting stones. I am not going to try and explain to some of you who obviously have not a clue. Suffice it to say they are, mainly, people like you and I of all parties, fed up with a Congress and government which seems intent on ignoring any suggestion made to them which does not meet their agenda. I may be wrong, but I see a day of reckoning coming and it isn't too far off. Hopefully, we will get back to some of the values with which I was raised.

 

[scooterbug44]

Just because I have not yet been taken into custody w/o evidence, denied a lawyer, not been allowed to know the charges against me, or held indefinitely doesn't mean it isn't a valid concern.

Those are the "rights" I worry about.

Yes, unemployment is definitely a concern for many and it is definitely a priority. And I hope your grandson can at least stay on his parent's insurance for a couple years as otherwise he will pay out the nose for individual health insurance.

It would be great if the Tea party becomes a valid movement that corrects the path our country is on - but so far the fringe elements have too much of a voice and you don't decrease a deficit by cutting taxes.

 

[Andy A]

Just because I have not yet been taken into custody w/o evidence, denied a lawyer, not been allowed to know the charges against me, or held indefinitely doesn't mean it isn't a valid concern.

Those are the "rights" I worry about.

Yes, unemployment is definitely a concern for many and it is definitely a priority. And I hope your grandson can at least stay on his parent's insurance for a couple years as otherwise he will pay out the nose for individual health insurance.

It would be great if the Tea party becomes a valid movement that corrects the path our country is on - but so far the fringe elements have too much of a voice and you don't decrease a deficit by cutting taxes.

You know, you are seldom wrong in my book but when you're wrong, you're really wrong. This is one of those rare occasions. BTW, when you are arrested for violating the Patriot Act, give me a call. I'll foot the bail.

 

[30ashopper]

Have you READ the Patriot Act? NO comparison whatsoever!

Please stop revising history! It's important not to gloss over that fact that the patriot act was passed in 2001 by a democrat lead Senate and Republican lead House, and it passed via a wide bipartisian majority of votes in both houses. I think if you think back to 2001, it's easy to understand how such a thing could happen. In this one particualr case, I guess I'm left defending both parties.

USA PATRIOT Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Act increases the ability of law enforcement agencies to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial, and other records; eases restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States; expands the Secretary of the Treasury’s authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities; and broadens the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting immigrants suspected of terrorism-related acts. The act also expands the definition of terrorism to include domestic terrorism, thus enlarging the number of activities to which the USA PATRIOT Act’s expanded law enforcement powers can be applied.

The Act was passed by wide margins in both houses of Congress and was supported by members of both the Republican and Democratic parties. Opponents of the law have criticized its authorization of indefinite detentions of immigrants; searches through which law enforcement officers search a home or business without the owner’s or the occupant’s permission or knowledge; the expanded use of National Security Letters, which allows the FBI to search telephone, e-mail, and financial records without a court order; and the expanded access of law enforcement agencies to business records, including library and financial records. Since its passage, several legal challenges have been brought against the act, and Federal courts have ruled that a number of provisions are unconstitutional.

Many of the act's provisions were to sunset beginning December 31, 2005, approximately 4 years after its passage. In the months preceding the sunset date, supporters of the act pushed to make its sunsetting provisions permanent, while critics sought to revise various sections to enhance civil liberty protections. In July 2005, the U.S. Senate passed a reauthorization bill with substantial changes to several sections of the act, while the House reauthorization bill kept most of the act's original language. The two bills were then reconciled in a conference committee that was criticized by Senators from both the Republican and Democratic parties for ignoring civil liberty concerns. The bill, which removed most of the changes from the Senate version, passed Congress on March 2, 2006, and was signed into law by President George W. Bush on March 9 and 10, 2006.

 

[scooterbug44]

Yes, you're right - as a citizen I am still protected from being detaining w/o any rights or legal representation. It's just my friends and neighbors whom they can lock up and throw away the key. :roll:

But they can still search & wiretap my home & business w/o providing cause (and never tell me), have the CIA spy on me, and investigate me without any evidence of wrongdoing.

 

[Andy A]

Unless your friends and neighbors subscribe to sedition or something worse they have very little to fear from the CIA, FBI or military intelligence. If, on the other hand, they seek violent overthrow of the government, our intelligence agencies and law enforcement will, hopefully, protect us. I sincerely hope your friend are not so inclined though I do wonder about SWGB sometimes.

 

[30ashopper]

Yes, you're right - as a citizen I am still protected from being detaining w/o any rights or legal representation. It's just my friends and neighbors whom they can lock up and throw away the key. :roll:

But they can still search & wiretap my home & business w/o providing cause (and never tell me), have the CIA spy on me, and investigate me without any evidence of wrongdoing.

They can do all that with or without the patriot act, as long as they have a court order. The patriot act mostly applied existing law to digital communications. The most controversial provisions that attempted to run end roads around the 4th amendment have since been struck down.

 

[30ashopper]

I'm not trying to defend everything in this act, but again, I think, looking at how things were in 2001, I understand how something like this could get passed. Since then, the courts have helped clean things up quite a bit.

 

[Matt J]

Lets not forget the fear mongering that was going on when the Patriot Act was passed. Voting against it was akin to peeing on the American Flag on a church alter.