Surge is a Success!!

[rancid]

I'm saying that the Palestinian ethnicity was created by Arafat. The stated goal of any movement surrounding the ethnicity is the destruction of Israel. May 15, 1948 is the date when Palestinians became a people, according to their constitution. Do you know what happened on May 14, 1948?

You are getting caught up in semantics. Whatever you want to call the Palestinians, you cannot deny that there were people living in what is now Israel who have been displaced. This is the source of the conflict. Trying to discredit these people by arguing that they are Arab or Jordanian is unfair.
Israel is another example of Western nations intervening in the Middle East for better or worse. The fact that the West gets blamed for it does not seem unfair to me but then again I can see things from other peoples perspectives.

 

[6thGen]

You are getting caught up in semantics. Whatever you want to call the Palestinians, you cannot deny that there were people living in what is now Israel who have been displaced. This is the source of the conflict. Trying to discredit these people by arguing that they are Arab or Jordanian is unfair.
Israel is another example of Western nations intervening in the Middle East for better or worse. The fact that the West gets blamed for it does not seem unfair to me but then again I can see things from other peoples perspectives.

I understand and agree on the displaced people, but they are merely a pawn for the destruction of Israel and the Jews in general.

Do you believe that Israel has a right to exist?

 

[Chickpea]

I'm saying that the Palestinian ethnicity was created by Arafat. The stated goal of any movement surrounding the ethnicity is the destruction of Israel. May 15, 1948 is the date when Palestinians became a people, according to their constitution. Do you know what happened on May 14, 1948?

Your saying that Arafat created the Palestinian ethnicity highlights your lack of knowledge of the history of the area - what on earth would you term the people who were born and raised in Palestine prior to 1948 (christians, druze, arab jews, and muslims, etc.)- whose parents grew up there? Read a previous thread I wrote when I wrote that my family has palestinians origins - would love to have you subjected to my dad's intimate knowledge and the hard lesson of history you obviously need if you dared state that they did not really exist......

Arafat merely brought attention to their cause (his tactics were despicable but they were those of war). And flashlight for you: there are scores and scores of Palestinians who CRAVE peace with Israel - there are scores and scores of Israelis who CRAVE peace with Palestinians - again for you to state that the Palestinian identity is irrevocably tied to the destruction of Israel is plainly and simply wrong.

It is now going to be tragic to read all of the predictable inflammatory stories about palestinians and terrorism - there will continue to be very little serious talk about possibly understanding the motivations of a people tired of living the way they have been subjected to.

 

[6thGen]

Your saying that Arafat created the Palestinian ethnicity highlights your lack of knowledge of the history of the area - what on earth would you term the people who were born and raised in Palestine prior to 1948 (christians, druze, arab jews, and muslims, etc.)- whose parents grew up there? Read a previous thread I wrote when I wrote that my family has palestinians origins - would love to have you subjected to my dad's intimate knowledge and the hard lesson of history you obviously need if you dared state that they did not really exist......

Arafat merely brought attention to their cause (his tactics were despicable but they were those of war). And flashlight for you: there are scores and scores of Palestinians who CRAVE peace with Israel - there are scores and scores of Israelis who CRAVE peace with Palestinians - again for you to state that the Palestinian identity is irrevocably tied to the destruction of Israel is plainly and simply wrong.

It is now going to be tragic to read all of the predictable inflammatory stories about palestinians and terrorism - there will continue to be very little serious talk about possibly understanding the motivations of a people tired of living the way they have been subjected to.

Pay attention. I said the people were more of a pawn to destroy Israel. And if they don't want to be linked to terrorism, they should quit practicing such barbarity. As for the ethnicity, you might as well go around calling yourself a Panhalinian, because you live here. The "Palestinians" never identified with one another until they were brought together for a common cause. The cause was founded by the Arab League and dedicated to the destruction of Israel. That was a stated goal by Arafat, the PLO, and many other organizations. You can stand athwart your history book yelling "Stop!", but that doesn't change the fact. You condemn the US for getting involved in wars, but why not condemn Arabs for constantly declaring war on Israel?

 

[Chickpea]

Pay attention. I said the people were more of a pawn to destroy Israel. And if they don't want to be linked to terrorism, they should quit practicing such barbarity. As for the ethnicity, you might as well go around calling yourself a Panhalinian, because you live here. The "Palestinians" never identified with one another until they were brought together for a common cause. The cause was founded by the Arab League and dedicated to the destruction of Israel. That was a stated goal by Arafat, the PLO, and many other organizations. You can stand athwart your history book yelling "Stop!", but that doesn't change the fact. You condemn the US for getting involved in wars, but why not condemn Arabs for constantly declaring war on Israel?

WRONG - WRONG and WRONG - everything you have written in this post is absurd, especially the part of Palestinians never identifying with one another until they were brought together by common goal - but go ahead and believe this if you so desire - cannot implore or plead with you with to
attempt to polish your history.

 

[6thGen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization

The Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) (Arabic: منظمة التحرير الفلسطينية; Munazzamat al-Tahrir al-Filastiniyyah (help?info) or Munazzamat al-Tahrir al-Filastiniyyah) is a multi-party confederation and an organization regarded by the Arab League since October 1974 as the "sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."[1]

Founded by the Arab League in 1964, its goal was the destruction of the State of Israel through armed struggle. It was initially controlled for the most part by the Egyptian government. The original PLO Charter stressed Israel's annihilation, as well as a right of return and self-determination for Palestinian Arabs, during Jordan's and Egypt's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, respectively. Palestinian statehood was not mentioned, although later the PLO adopted the idea of an independent state between the Jordan River and Mediterranean Sea.[2] More recently, the PLO officially adopted a two-state solution, with Israel and Palestine living side by side contingent on specific terms such as making East Jerusalem capital of the Palestinian state and giving Palestinians right of return.[3] although many Palestinian leaders, including Yasser Arafat and Faisal Husseini have declared their goal is still "liberation" of all of Palestine.[2][4]


Also, if statehood is so important to Palestinians, why did their leader reject statehood in 2000 in exchange for peace with Israel?

 

[Chickpea]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization

The Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) (Arabic: منظمة التحرير الفلسطينية; Munazzamat al-Tahrir al-Filastiniyyah (help?info) or Munazzamat al-Tahrir al-Filastiniyyah) is a multi-party confederation and an organization regarded by the Arab League since October 1974 as the "sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people."[1]

Founded by the Arab League in 1964, its goal was the destruction of the State of Israel through armed struggle. It was initially controlled for the most part by the Egyptian government. The original PLO Charter stressed Israel's annihilation, as well as a right of return and self-determination for Palestinian Arabs, during Jordan's and Egypt's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, respectively. Palestinian statehood was not mentioned, although later the PLO adopted the idea of an independent state between the Jordan River and Mediterranean Sea.[2] More recently, the PLO officially adopted a two-state solution, with Israel and Palestine living side by side contingent on specific terms such as making East Jerusalem capital of the Palestinian state and giving Palestinians right of return.[3] although many Palestinian leaders, including Yasser Arafat and Faisal Husseini have declared their goal is still "liberation" of all of Palestine.[2][4]


Also, if statehood is so important to Palestinians, why did their leader reject statehood in 2000 in exchange for peace with Israel?

You can print out as many articles as you wish about the Palestinians not having an identity until the PLO was formed - that is simply patently untrue - it would, in my opinion, be as absurb as telling a Cuban they are not cuban because they have never set foot in Cuba. The thousands who lived in Palestine prior to 1948, considered themselves palestinians (not necessarily arabs - in the same way that if you were to tell a Lebanese Christian they are arabs, many would fight that title).

As to why the terms Clinton tried to broker at Camp David were not accepted: Because Arafat deemed the conditions unacceptable (mostly the clause about refugees not having the right of return) - it was shortsighted and unfortunate.

 

[6thGen]

As to why the terms Clinton tried to broker at Camp David were not accepted: Because Arafat deemed the conditions unacceptable (mostly the clause about refugees not having the right of return) - it was shortsighted and unfortunate.

Then why didn't Arafat counter? He did not because he had zero interest with peace with Israel.

 

[30A Skunkape]

Then why didn't Arafat counter? He did not because he had zero interest with peace with Israel.

It reminds me of the tortured relationship between Bob, Chickpea, Uncle Timmy and 6th Gen:funn:

 

[Cheering472]

This isn't a simple issue, but bear with me. Let's oversimplify this. Let's say you are a 6th generational, born and bred, Floridian who lives in the panhandle of Florida. The UN decides to a new Partiton Plan and gives Alabama the panhandle previously occupied by you and your ancestors. There might be some anger, after all you have generations of family who have lived here and someone who doesn't own it is now giving it to someone else.

I am not a fan of the PLO or it's tactics, but the anger dates back way before Arafat came into the picture. I do believe Israel has a right to exist and feel our country is right to assist them. Yet I can understand the anger of a displaced people, surely we all can, if we think about it from their view point. The best way to resolve conflict is seeing the others point not trying to prove our own.

That being said I don't think there will ever be lasting peace in that area.
Heck we can't agree over who owns the beaches in Sowal. Seems like there's alot of people arguing over sand these days.