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Surge is a Success!!

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6th Gen,

My snobbish side is coming out - I have no desire nor have I ever stated that I aim to appeal to mainstream with my personal thoughts on this war (in fact mainstream America which travels very little and is even less often exposed to other religions and culture would find the nuanced thinking required to be too rigorous and demanding). I am interested in having discussions and healthy debates on this subject with people who are either lucky enough to have traveled outside of this country OR, if they have not been fortunate enough to take advantage of this are at least well read and informed (which many people on this Board are).

It would be laughable to me if it were not so tragic, to hear people whose sole vacation per year is to take their family to Disney World (year after year after year....) pontificate about this subject. They can talk amongst themselves ad nauseum - just pls leave me out of this.

And like I have previously said, I continue to have no interest in debating you - have no idea who you are, what you do, how much you have traveled, etc... - you are obviously well read and intelligent - but it is obvious to me what your opinions on this administration and its doings are - as obvious as what and how you view my opinions - so you surely agree that we can leave it at that. I leave others who have informed opinions to debate you since they have infinite more patience and energy than I do.

Thanks.

OK, but the fact that you start with the premise that the war was pointless and senseless is where you miss on playing the "I'm ignoring extremes" card. You aren't ignoring extremes, you are just conveniently positioning your argument so your critics can't argue the merits of the war without being considered extreme. The military operation to remove Saddam Hussein wasn't and isn't pointless. The war wasn't and isn't senseless. Rather than debating the merits, go ahead and label me extreme. It's as convenient and lazy as dismissing others' arguments if they haven't yet been to Baghdad. It's as expected as your unmerited condescension when you are losing an argument.
 
Yeah. And replace them with those who promised change and improvement and so far have done not one blessed thing constructive since they won their great "victory". Congress is a mess! Both Democrat and Republican. You are right about get the idiots out of Washington but you should include BOTH parties in that little endeavor. Social Security, Immigration, Health Care(Not Hillary's solution) and a dozen other really compelling problems we need to address. A pox on all you verbose and philosophical posters on this site! Most of you obviously don't have a clue as to what real sacrifice and personal giving is all about.

Agreed that Congress is a friggin mess - doubt anyone on this Board will be jumping in to defend anyone, regardless of political afiliation - but what is the alternative right now? All we can do is lobby hard for our own convictions, vote to put people in office that we haev some semblance of faith about and encourage others to do the same.

We can all complain and moan OR we can do our little part - do you not agree?
 
Timmy, until you've established sufficient credibility to be published in a respected daily, you are no more than a crazy anonymous internet person who thinks he's smarter than everyone by posting various banality that has zero impact on the way people think.

The irony to that retort is that applies equally to you or anyone else posting here, now doesn?t it?

You have to admit? I?m expressing an opinion in contradiction to the current round of stories in the mainstream media and that takes a pretty big pair of OMB?s????

Uncle Timmy versus the NYTimes, National Review, .oh and 6thGen.

Mother of all Political Smackdowns anyone?

I'll see you back here in a year or two.
 
I didn't mean to imply you freaked-out, but you must admit, in some circles good news out of Iraq, ESPECIALLY heading into election season will be cause for alarm. You have way more of a grip on the politics there than I do;all I am saying is that to an average Joe such as myself, good news is a welcome change. I know we agree in hoping that there will be long term stability in the country no matter who our President is or who controls Congress. Now look at the glass and let us see what we will...:wave: :wave:

I looked into the glass and saw............mint leaves floating around. Oh wait -that was Cork's Mojito recipie.

I'll bring the 8-track to the beach next time and we can all freak out...........
 
The irony to that retort is that applies equally to you or anyone else posting here, now doesn?t it?

You have to admit? I?m expressing an opinion in contradiction to the current round of stories in the mainstream media and that takes a pretty big pair of OMB?s????

Uncle Timmy versus the NYTimes, National Review, .oh and 6thGen.

Mother of all Political Smackdowns anyone?

I'll see you back here in a year or two.

Not really, since most who post here back it up with an article from a respected source. I'm not offering any new opinion, I'm offering what I've read on the subject. Since I've never been to Baghdad, like Chickpea has, I have to rely on the pen and pads on the ground. I'll be the first to admit I was wrong if the surge is a disaster, but it doesn't look like I'll have to do that. The disaster would be pulling out and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
 
Speaking of which...

Iraq is Not a Mess, Just Extremely Complex [W. Thomas Smith Jr.]
AL QAIM ? Early afternoon here as I watch two wicked-looking Harriers roar across the desert beyond me. Over the past couple days, I've seen Harrier jump jets and Cobra helicopters (flown by Marine pilots) as well as the two permanently stationed Black Hawk medevac helos (flown by the Army). Rarely do I see transports like C-130s out this way (in fact, I don't think I've seen any) unless they are picking up or delivering. After all, this is the proverbial last American outpost ? counting battalion HQ, all the battle positions and combat outposts ? in western Iraq.

I used to say Iraq is a mess, but winnable. I was wrong. Iraq is not a mess. It is complex, and, yes, still winnable.

If there is any aspect of this war that is a mess, it is the militarily stifling mess created by the micro-managing politicians who think they know something about warfighting and the classic principles of war (you know, the basics as fleshed out by the likes of Clausewitz, Jomini, and Frederick the Great). Those birds on the Hill have obviously never read any of the three. And the majority of the most vocal of the war critics have never even worn the uniform of our country. Yet some have even gone so far as to suggest that they have military backgrounds based on their holding seats on armed services committees.

Then there are my favorites like Reid, Pelosi, Biden, and Murtha, all of whom have consistently given aid and comfort to the enemy with declarations of a "lost war," a "disaster," and a "failed policy;" as well as referring to our Marines here in Anbar as being "cold-blooded" killers. What do they ? save perhaps the agenda-driven turncoat Murtha ? really know about war?

This is not to suggest that they might not have flown in for a bite of lunch at Camp Victory out by Baghdad International Airport, or gotten a guided tour of the Green Zone. But I personally can't imagine any of them spending any real time out here on the ends of the earth. And how can they possibly make claims that the war is "lost" and a "disaster" unless they've actually experienced it? There is simply no way that anyone so eager to pull the plug on this effort can appreciate the realities of Al Anbar much less Iraq unless they've suffered in this heat, driven multiple times up-and-down these dangerous supply routes, patrolled the cities and towns, interacted with shepherds, shopkeepers, and the sick, aging, and unemployed living in some of the most impoverished villages on earth. How can they appreciate the realities of this effort unless they've been shot at a few times, sat for endless hours ? sometimes days ? with exhausted Marines and soldiers under the sun and stars of an isolated battle position. Fact is neither the politicians nor the most vocal of the antiwar crowd have a clue as to what is really going on ? the good and the bad ? out here. But they've somehow convinced much of America they do.
08/06 06:23 AM
 
Speaking of which...

Iraq is Not a Mess, Just Extremely Complex [W. Thomas Smith Jr.]


Ah yes, your remarkable skills at cutting and pasting articles, mostly from conservative sources, is well established.

Here are some earlier articles from your source, W. Thomas Smith Jr.



Iraqis want us There: http://www.nationalreview.com/smitht/smith200408050804.asp

?Asked if the Iraqis have welcomed the Americans with open arms, Twitty is quick to say, "without a doubt. The vast majority of the Iraqi people are glad we are there.?

Countdown to Democracy: http://www.nationalreview.com/smitht/smith200501270743.asp

?Despite the bombings, summary executions, and near daily reports of American troops killed in action, the countdown has begun toward true democracy in Iraq.?

"All indications are that the Iraqi people are determined to take advantage of this great moment in their history," Nevers says. "For those if us who can see it, the tide is turning."

A Winning Situation: http://www.nationalreview.com/smitht/smith200404210857.asp

"It's fun having the Americans here, because it's all about building friendships," said Ali Tayish, 19, a local resident. "We're all brothers. We'd play soccer with them everyday if we could."



Not exactly a great track record of understanding the true nature of the subject he is writing about in hindsight, is it? Hint: Given this failure, I wouldn?t be giving W. Thomas Smith much attention for his current thoughts on Iraq.

I suggest that you start getting your information from a broader range of sources and let the knowledge you may glean lead you towards an opinion rather than seeking only those articles which reinforce your pre-determined opinion.




 
Forgive me for basing my opinion on something other than what I pulled out of my a**.

His articles are snapshots in time, and believe it or not, war reporters are going to make some wrong predictions, so it?s pretty easy to cherry-pick some articles with fault that represented the situation at one point in time, as the situation is fluid. Further, I didn?t post those articles, I posted the comment above, so if you find fault there, that?s sticking to the subject. I?ve obtained information from various sites and authors with various leanings and established my beliefs. A certain viewpoint is well represented here, so I don?t feel the need to post something everyone believes anyway. Again, I?d be happy to listen to what you have to say if you can establish any credibility whatsoever. Until then, you are just as effective as a Kos poster.
 
Forgive me for basing my opinion on something other than what I pulled out of my a**.

His articles are snapshots in time, and believe it or not, war reporters are going to make some wrong predictions, so it?s pretty easy to cherry-pick some articles with fault that represented the situation at one point in time, as the situation is fluid. Further, I didn?t post those articles, I posted the comment above, so if you find fault there, that?s sticking to the subject. I?ve obtained information from various sites and authors with various leanings and established my beliefs. A certain viewpoint is well represented here, so I don?t feel the need to post something everyone believes anyway. Again, I?d be happy to listen to what you have to say if you can establish any credibility whatsoever. Until then, you are just as effective as a Kos poster.

Ah well you got me there.

I really can?t cut and paste 17 years of living abroad including 8 years spent in the Mid-East and visits to 6 or so Arab countries very effectively onto SoWal.com. So I guess my opinion on foreign policy issues is really not very credible.

Glad we have a cut and paste expert here who can lead us down the right path. Keep up the good work.
 
I really can?t cut and paste 17 years of living abroad including 8 years spent in the Mid-East and visits to 6 or so Arab countries very effectively onto SoWal.com. So I guess my opinion on foreign policy issues is really not very credible.

Who said we can't agree on something? Cheers.
 
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